A Little Lesson In Recursion Theory

Modern* slovakattack

SCORE: 99 | 383 COMMENTS | 13885 VIEWS | IN 42 FOLDERS


elpokitolama says... #1

Man, it's 100 cards to play EDH... :pAnyway, great deck! Take my upvote, it's a gift.

November 17, 2014 4:26 p.m.

slovakattack says... #2

laoshan3337: No problem!

elpokitolama: icwutudidthere ;3

November 17, 2014 4:33 p.m.

Antosa says... #3

This deck must require to make so many choices. Is it difficult to play for long tournaments?

November 18, 2014 6:34 p.m.

slovakattack says... #4

Antosa: It can be pretty easy to make a mistake with this deck, and mistakes are punished very heavily where Gifts are concerned. That just makes it all the more fun for me! :D

November 19, 2014 12:44 p.m.

Player3.14 says... #5

Wow! This is amazing! I'm not very experienced with gifts ungiven, but this seems like a great deck to try to build. As much of the discussion indicates, it is almost infinately customizable. It seems difficult but highly rewarding to play. I'm sure there is a reason for it, but why is there no Hallowed Fountain in the mana base? Is it because those colors ar the least used? Also, I know having stuff in the graveyard is really important, but you could use Dig Through Time to grab what you need to assemble combos. There are a lot of fetchlands, so those (in addition to things like dead planeswalkers or snapcasters) could power Dig through time. Alternately, because you have green and this is very graveyard based, Tarmogoyf could get huge early on and do some serious beating. The gloyf is quite expensive though...

November 19, 2014 6:55 p.m.

slovakattack says... #6

Player3.14: You got it! My priorities for colors go as follows: Black -> Green -> white/bliue. I can only have so many shocks in the deck, and tend to prioritize green and black wherever possible.

Dig Through Time is an awesome card, but this deck is super built specifically to revolve around the mechanics of Gifts Ungiven. Because of this, it makes Gifts a more efficient choice than Dig, in this shell. It would be a decent candidate if I needed more card advantage, but considering the amount of recursion mechanics that lie in this deck... I doubt that'll be the case.

There -is- a variant of this deck called "Gifts Rock" that runs 4 Tarmogoyf. I personally don't like it, as I consider Gifts to be more of a control deck, and do not believe it functions well as a midrange one- also, I don't have the money for a set of Goyf :P(Even if I had a full set, I wouldn't add it. There are better things to add for this kind of deck.)

Of course, I'm sure there's someone out there who swears by Gifts Rock, so... each to their own opinion, I suppose.

November 19, 2014 10:12 p.m.

bigguy99 says... #7

What about Obstinate Baloth over Thragtusk in the side? Messes up the opponent's Liliana of the Veil as well as keeping the life gain that Thragtusk gives. Also could maybe consider Thrun, the Last Troll as a lot of decks have a problem dealing with him, so once he sticks he's usually there to stay, although I'm not sure what you could take out.

November 20, 2014 12:17 a.m.

-Fulcrum says... #8

How well does a singleton Unburial Rites work for you? I considered going down to one in my build, but it's two for now.

How does 24 lands work out for you?

Have you considered running a fourth Liliana?

By the way, I think I actually like your list more than my own. I like having a lot of disruption whenever I build a deck, and mine just doesn't have as much.

November 20, 2014 7:38 p.m.

GlistenerAgent says... #9

Your primary plan isn't Unburial Rites, and often it doesn't even win the game if they have removal for your fatty. I much prefer the attrition plan, and only feel that the reanimator wincon is necessary if you need to catch back up to a lopsided board state as quickly as possible.

I am with you on adding a 25th or possibly 26th land, as this deck wants to be activating manlands and casting four mana instants. Same deal with the fourth Liliana of the Veil, as that card is the second best card in the deck.

November 20, 2014 8:52 p.m.

slovakattack says... #10

I have no problems adding in another Lili (and another lingering souls for that matter)... I just really wouldn't know what to take out, that's all. Any suggestions, GlistenerAgent, Fulcrum, bigguy99?

November 20, 2014 9:08 p.m.

I've seen lists entirely cut out Eternal Witness and Snapcaster Mage, so if they are doing poorly for you they could go for a fourth Liliana. The wrath package doesn't actually seem that good right now, as at earliest you will be able to cast them on turn four, when Delver will have counterspells (they won't let you have Supreme Verdict). I might cut those out, or possibly cut two of them, for an extra land and the Liliana. Of course, testing is important. :)

November 20, 2014 9:12 p.m.

slovakattack says... #12

I wouldn't mind cutting the wrath package, honestly. I quite like the idea of another Path, Lili and perhaps a Tectonic Edge instead?

November 20, 2014 9:34 p.m.

-Fulcrum says... #13

@GlistenerAgent: What do you mean by the attrition plan?

Also, how do you usually win? Our main plan is to get out Lingering Souls and Elesh Norn.

November 20, 2014 10:34 p.m.

bigguy99 says... #14

Dropping the wraths doesn't seem like a terrible idea, but it leaves you more vulnerable to being swarmed despite the removal you've got. A fourth Liliana of the Veil and fourth Lingering Souls don't seem that bad either. You could cut a Snapcaster Mage, and I agree with your idea on Tectonic Edge, as it can ruin their plan to Cryptic Command or kill a manland or whatever.

November 20, 2014 11:08 p.m.

-Fulcrum says... #15

Dropping the wrath package probably isn't completely terrible, but you may have to go for Elesh Norn more often to stop from being overrun. Something you should definitely experiment with before making a final decision.

November 21, 2014 3:53 a.m.

@Fulcrum Attrition plan as in Life from the Loam + Raven's Crime to remove their resources quickly, and grinding them out with tokens, manlands and Batterskull. The primary plan shouldn't be Rites unless you're against a fast combo/aggro deck.

November 21, 2014 2:52 p.m.

slovakattack says... #17

What I really need to do is just dick around with the deck a lot and see what works for me. Who knows, I may just wind up liking a few Mana Leaks in there. I'll have to find sometime between my internships to do it >.<

November 21, 2014 3:11 p.m.

fightman69 says... #18

i feel that mana leak might be better then the slaughter pact and wrath of god because wrath is just a second damnation and slaughter is the worst removal spell that you have and is unnecessary when you can just get it with gifts ungiven

November 27, 2014 9:54 p.m.

Telerik says... #19

I tried this deck for myself with just some small changes and Slaughter Pact was many times a good card.

You need Wrath of God to complete the Board wipe package (Wrath of God, Supreme Verdict and Damnation + any oder card).

I removed one Abrupt Decay and one Dismember to put in 2 Mana Leak, but I would like to see one or two more. Any other suggestions what can be replaced for Mana Leak?

November 28, 2014 4:10 a.m.

slovakattack says... #20

laoshan3337: I am still tweaking the brew, but if you're having trouble finding a spot for a third Mana Leak, try removing Eternal Witness.

November 29, 2014 9:53 p.m.

Sauron_ says... #21

I would replace the Duress in your sideboard with a Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus. You currently have zero cards for graveyard hate, and I have found that a turn 4 6/7 Tarmogoyf will usually beat a Gifts deck.

Personally, I would go with Tormod's Crypt because it doesn't disrupt the loam and unburial combos.

November 30, 2014 9:17 a.m.

One does not simply play Tormod's Crypt in Modern. You've got 11 removal spells that make Tarmogoyf fairly easy to deal with, not to mention Lingering Souls to stall it and Gifts Ungiven to find more removal spells should you need them.

November 30, 2014 9:19 a.m.

Sauron_ says... #23

GlistenerAgent the tarmo example was just one possibility of what people use their graveyards for. I only recommended the crypt because most of the other cards that are used, the relic, Grafdigger's Cage, and Rest in Peace, are universally punishing. Gifts has a lot of focus on the graveyard, and I have found the crypt to be the best option. I have playtested each extensively enough to know.

November 30, 2014 9:42 a.m.

@Sauron_ That was to say that you don't need graveyard hate in Modern right now. There aren't any real graveyard decks that warrant dedicated hate, and the extra disruption is probably a much better use of the slot.

November 30, 2014 9:46 a.m.

slovakattack says... #25

Sauron_: Those are pretty solid graveyard hate suggestions, thank you! My sideboard is currently in a state of flux atm. There are some changes that I'm def. planning on making, such as adding 3x Drown in Sorrow to counter the exploding popularity of Delver aggro. It does quite a number on Affinity, too.

November 30, 2014 10:10 a.m.

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