Thanks McCottonattle, yeah I've just put the deck together and I did think about that, I may alter the mana base somewhat, depending on how I just the other cards.

As a starting point I just went for an even spread of the 3 colors.

I'm a bit of a noob, so any help on cards to go/cards to put in is a great help.

Asceticism , Greater Auramancy and Privileged Position are a few enchantments that power each other up pretty hardcore

thanks dethjakal; I've got Asceticism and thought about putting it in - I think Privileged Position is the better though and unfortunately don't have that one.

I've got to take a look over the deck again, I think more permanents rather than one of uses from instants and sorceries, but not got round to it yet.

A day of playing the deck no doubt will tell me how far I've gone wrong.

Thanks for your input, I'll try to get the other cards and keep your suggestions in mind for future adjustments.

It saddens me that Grave Pact is not in here.

Sterling Grove should be in your sideboard with Privileged Position and Greater Auramancy !the 2 color mana cost can be rough but the tutor is repeatable with Sun Titan and the shroud redundancy is great!

Don't be sad xzzane i've only been playing since RTR, i dont have Grave Pact or know about it until i saw your comment. That's an awesome shout, i'll be going to find that asap. Thanks a lot mate.

Aelorith2117 good suggestions i''ve got to go and find them that's great for protecting my side of.the board. Thank you

Ah, I'll send a bunch of other suggestions to you in a few hours then. Too lazy right now. I've built a Ghave deck of my own, but it's still in progress itself.

Butcher of Malakir is like a flying Grave Pact !

Contagion Engine > Contagion Clasp .Also, I'm too lazy to list all of the cards that would be goof for a ghave deck so I'll just make mine not private and you can take a look at it. A lot of the cards in the maybeboard are going to be mainboarded eventually, I just don't have the money yet to buy them. Ghave Consequences.

I'm the same as the guy above, although I think for a Ghave deck either Garruk Wildspeaker or Garruk, Primal hunter are essential.Storm herd makes for one of the most hilarious wincons I've ever seen, and with the life gain you have in this deck, that can get crazy on both ends.Also, if you want more life gain Trostani or essence warden are good cards to throw inMy Ghave deck's here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/a-ghave-nectar-1/If you'd like to take a look at it

Hey guys;

xzzane , Aelorith2117, dethjakal - had a successful trip to my LGS, an out of town trader, had a bunch of cards from your suggestions; along with me putting in some of the other cards you suggested.

Picked up Grave Pact , Sterling Grove being the most notable additions Privileged Position on it's way.

Swapped a few creatures in and out, also to add a bit more utility.

How does it look now?

Also guys a question? Should I put more basic lands in - somebody told me I should run less duels.... but having played the deck a few times with the mana base as it is I've never had color problems. What's your opinion on this.... I can run basics but I don't have lots of fetch cards (and I'm not sure I want to find room for them).

if you have karametra RUN HER. she was practically tailor made for EDH. as for your mana base, yes you should put more basic lands in. specifically forests and swamps. from my experience the cycling lands tend to be really underwhelming, the only good window for playing a cycling land is the very first turn, and the late game when you have all the mana you need. the nature of a token deck is to use card effects to (which are generally fueled by mana) to get you an advantage, since ghave's ability costs only one, putting a land in tapped could cost you the game. also replace your guild gates with thees unconventional dual lands Tainted Field Tainted Wood balancing your swamps with everything else will make them much more viable.

and if you're going to go for a lifegain theme go all the way and use all the soul sisters: Essence Warden Suture Priest Auriok Champion , and then cards that can use that lifegain Archangel of Thune Ajani's Pridemate . to take out any indestructible threats.

here are some more token and counter generators you may want to consider: Bloodline Keeper  ^Flip Grave Titan Juniper Order Ranger Squirrel Nest

Also the card Earthcraft works wonders on your mana supply and will cause several enchantments and token generators to go infinite.

Wow - Marley; awesome suggestions man!! Thanks so much.

Yeah the land base was a concern and thought I'd need to change; just a noob mistake.

I have Karametra - how about Knight of the Reliquary too?

I've got Ajani's Pridemate , Juniper Order Ranger , the other's I'd need to go and find.

If I don't go all the way on lifegain - would you recommend taking out the 2 soul sisters that I do have?

What I struggle with is knowing what needs to come out - the deck will mostly be played in multiplayer, with some occasional 1v1 games.

Anything jump out at you to make way for some of your suggestions??

Marley - did as you suggested on the lands, moved the things taken out into sideboard, just so you can see what I've done.

Does that look ok to you? I realise that the mana base compared to actual costs doesn't match, it should be 50% white, should I fix this? I'm kind of tempted to leave it, to avoid color screw on green and black.

Just an idea: I love Pentavus in token decks, especially ones with Doubling Season /Parallel Lives /Primal Vigor . Also works very well with effects when creatures die, such as Grave Pact or ETB effects such as Cathars' Crusade . Seems kinda like a miniature version of your commander. Also, the tokens are colorless (can block swords, etc.) and flying. Take it or leave it, but I think it fits well!

ehh it's close enough I would however leave in the karoo lands (the ones that produce 2 mana and return one to your hand). the idea being that you play a spell, then return a tapped land to your hand in order to play your karoo. that way you don't fall behind the curve like you would when playing rupture spire.

tread carefully when it comes to land destruction, if you play Knight of the Reliquary make sure that you can support him with cards like Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam to ensure you don't deplete your mana supply.

If you want to take the more generic, token/counter combo machine route then tostani alone should provide ample lifegain support, both soul sisters and the blood artist could be removed.

However from an aesthetic perspective I am really liking the look of a lifegain focused ghave build: if you get a proper set up you might actually be able to outpace the lifegain of Oloro, Ageless Ascetic my personal favorite.

the only thing to consider there is that your creatures, (the soul sisters) would be highly vulnerable to board wipes, and so you would probably want to run back up re animator elements. I'll have some more detailed suggestions for you in the morning, till then feel free to check out my decks.

Not to sound like a shameless plug, but I feel I've built some pretty decent oloro decks and my Ghave deck combos off with terrifying consistency.

Thanks Marley; I think I may leave Knight of the Reliquary for now, it's probably only a small aspect of the deck.

I suppose this is where my deck lacks some consistency by trying to do bits and pieces of everything.

Blood Artist - like Butcher of Malakir was put in to punish people with board wipes.

I put the soul sister's in, with the thinking being that they may aid combo's with the effects of Sanguine Bond , Exquisite Blood Vizkopa Guildmage etc.

I like the idea of small bonuses from their effects, but am not sure if I want to go the whole way on the life gain focus. It's probably weakening the deck. Just going to be something I have to decide upon.

I'll be sure to check your deck out when I get home - combo's off consistently peaks my interest every time.

Thanks Remyth I'd forgotten about Pentavus even though I know my LGS has some in a binder, I'll pick one up later this week.

Ghave is my main EDH deck I run.

Glad do see you have Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Geralf's Messenger in here.However running more Undying cards will be even more beneficial in my opinion (I run nearly all of them in Ghave's colors).

Notably: Young Wolf , Butcher Ghoul , Vorapede , Strangleroot Geist .For just two mana with them and Ghave you get a Saproling, a sacrifice trigger, and a +1/+1 counter on anything of your choosing, all at instant speed.

Ashnod's Altar , which you already have, allows you to go infinite. Creating infinite Saprolings, infinite colorless mana, infinite sacrifice triggers, and infinite +1/+1 counters.

In addition to that I would also recommend Triskelion , as he alone goes infinite with Mikaeus, and is generally the combo I shoot for to end games. Generally tutoring for them both with Diabolic Revelation .

Awakening Zone is also a very synergetic card with the deck.

For a more aggro approach (I feel Ghave is more combo-centric, but I still run these any way, as they also work well with the combos anyway) Sublime Archangel and Lumberknot are very good. I see you already have Champion of Lambholt which is another amazing aggro card for the deck, often winning me games fairly early.

Thanks very much Quail I'm always pleased to hear from more experienced Ghave players, I really like your suggestions:

What I'm struggling with at the moment is - what doesn't belong in here - I think I'm probably stuck between combo and aggro, whilst I would like some variety in the deck:

Firstly so that it copes better with different matchups.

Secondly so I don't get bored just playing it out the same way everytime.

Can I ask you some questions - I'd appreciate the input:

I felt before it was a little slow, so I put a couple of ramping sorceries in there?

Ramp from artifacts etc was ok - I just felt I was taking too long to do anything.

So does that mean the cost of my spells overall is too high??

Struggling with what does and doesn't belong - anything stand out to you, as something to cut???

Thanks for the time man.

Accidentally clicked off the page after a big write-up in progress. So I'll just shorten it...

I think the deck is fairly slow by nature, so your early game will generally consist of ramping and controlling for the mid to late game.

Mana-dorks, you'll want them:Avacyn's Pilgrim , Llanowar Elves , Birds of Paradise , Arbor Elf , etc.

Ramp spells/creatures:Yavimaya Elder , Dawntreader Elk , Farseek , Explosive Vegetation , etc.

Control spells for the early game that still scale well into late game:Swords to Plowshares , Ray of Revelation , Tragic Slip , Dismember , Naturalize , etc.

As for what cards to take out, here's my opinions:

Elspeth Tirel - used to run her myself, looks good on paper, too slow and doesn't do much

Gideon, Champion of Justice - works better in a control deck, useless if your opponent doesn't play many creatures

Debt to the Deathless - only worth it in multiplayer or lifegain decks

Juniper Order Ranger - is fairly good, but could ruin undying combos, so just be wary of that

Vizkopa Guildmage - not a big fan, really only worth it in lifegain decks

Mikaeus, the Lunarch - oh man how I wanted to like him. I still get crap from people telling me I should continue to run him. The truth is he is extremely slow, as good as his abilities seem to be. After running him for a long time I can say he is not worth it. Playing him early game doesn't net you much advantage, and there's much better things to play late game than to invest mana into him.

Martial Coup - can be a very good card since it can give you board presence after you wipe it, but board wipes hurt Ghave decks. I don't really think there will ever be an optimal time where you'd want to play this for the wipe cost.

As for other cards I forgot to mention:

Fecundity - It's absolutely amazing, and will nearly always generate more of an advantage for you than your opponent if you're playing your deck correctly.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - gets you back important creatures you've lost and puts pressure on the opponent

Falkenrath Noble - acts as a second Blood Artist and will instant win with Ashnod's Altar , Ghave and an undying card. I personally took this card out of my deck, but I'll probably put it back in.

Reaper of the Wilds - all around good card, potential hexproof and potential deathtouch on solid body for a better than average price. Gives you an unbelievable amount of Scry, and is absolutely broken with Fecundity .

Worldly Tutor /Green Sun's Zenith - self-explanatory

Murmuring Bosk and Dryad Arbor - my two favorite things to tutor for with Ranger's Path . Won a From The Vault: Realms at BotG pre-release and were instant includes in the deck. Dryad Arbor specifically has helped a ton, providing me with mana, a chump blocker, or even a creature to sacrifice if it comes down to it.

Sorry to hear about the post mishap Quail, seems to happen to me regularly too.

Thanks though that's really valuable insight.

I should say most of the games i play are multiplayer games so i'd probably set up the deck a little more to favor that whilst still being somewhat competitive in 1v1 situations.

Haha the first game i plagued with the deck i actually won with 10/10 gideon combo with Vizkopa Guildmage but i do take your point on them. As i do with Elspeth Tirel and Mikaeus, the Lunarch

I think if i can free up about 6 or so slots in the deck it will help enormously getting some more versatile cards to help out how effectively the deck plays.

So then Quail have taken some of what you said on board, there'll be more refinement later I'm sure, but in preparation for a big multiplayer game i've got tomorrow.

Whilst not disliking your suggestions about more undying creatures, I felt the mana dorks would help me out a bit more, in terms of working with Ghave and speeding me up.

So removing most of the cards you thought and made good arguments for their cutting:

In come Elves of Deep Shadow , Avacyn's Pilgrim and Sylvan Caryatid . Also I'd been considering Awakening Zone after you mentioned it too, I've put it in.

How I'd overlooked Reaper of the Wilds I don't know, having just run Golgari right up to BNG in Standard.

And rather than the undying creatures I liked how Falkenrath Noble and Lumberknot kind of added something a little different with the deck whilst still being synergistic with what the deck does.

How does it look now to you? Going to take this version tomorrow see how it goes:

Struggling to find space for Sheoldred, Whispering One even though it's brilliant - any suggestions?

Green Sun's Zenith , Fecundity and Triskelion are on the shopping list.

Nath of the Gilt-Leaf is pretty fun with ghave. If you want to be really cruel, then add Sadistic Hypnotist to the list. The sadist combos with nath, plus gives control players the biggest ache in the world (been on the receiving end too many times).