Adapt says "If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put X +1/+1 counters on it." It's not like Monstrosity or Renown, which give the creature an extra title preventing it from becoming monstrous/renowned again. Biomancer's Familiar says "The next time target creature adapts this turn, it adapts as though it had no +1/+1 counters on it" thus satisfying the 'if' clause on Adapt and allowing any creature to adapt more than once.
February 2, 2019 11:14 a.m.
you are right. Didn't read that part of the familiar's ability.
February 2, 2019 4:43 p.m.
infernalNaqa123 says... #5
love the idea with the pack rats, but i wonder if pteramander is still a bit too slow, you have to pay 6 with either a biomancer or training grounds on the field and 4 if both are on the field, idk man.. meeeeh.
- 1 Commune with the Gods you only have 4 enchantments and only 13 creatures, pretty bad card. Unless you throw out some instants&sorceries
February 7, 2019 2:15 p.m.
wallisface says... #7
I reckon you’re better off using Growth-Chamber Guardian instead of the ptera-thing. It’ll only cost 1 to adapt (instead of 4-6), and while he’s one less power and not airbourne, he does grab his mates to come wreck face
February 7, 2019 2:47 p.m.
Don't forget, Pteramander 's ability gets cheaper for each instant/sorcery in your graveyard. This deck plays a lot of 1 cmc spells and a couple ways to dump them in the gy en masse, so the ability is usually discounted to 1-2 by turn 4 at the latest, turn 3 with a decent Thought Scour . Training Grounds and Familiar do help out with the ability reduction occasionally, but most of the work is done by casting spells.
From my testing so far, Commune with the Gods has never been actively bad. The ability to dig through 5 cards and get a creature if you already have a Training Grounds/Familiar out or if you have a threat but no reducer is good, even if there aren't that many targets. It hit something useful most of the time (~70%) in the games where I've drew it, and even if it doesn't it still fills the gy for Delve and Pteramander's ability; it's worth mentioning that a single Commune lets you cast Tasigur or Murderous Cut for 1 all by itself from an empty graveyard. That said, I don't think it's a particularly game-breaking inclusion either, which is one reason why there's only one in the deck, but it's not especially bad.
To answer your question wallisface, there isn't any particular reason why it's in the deck over any other card. I just put it in because I thought it could be worth playing (see reasons above) when the deck was in the planning phase. This deck is by no means a finished product, and after some more testing with the current list I'm gonna try out Mission Briefing in place of Commune and maybe Stubborn Denial .
February 7, 2019 3:28 p.m.
Growth-Chamber Guardian seems interesting. Kind of like Pack Rat , but worse. If I were to compare pros and cons, GCG's pros are that it's a lot better at creating value/card advantage than Pteramander and Pack Rat, but the con is that it costs a lot more mana than them. In terms of mana investment, Pteramander is potentially 2 mana for a 5/5 flier (that can become a 9/9 or bigger with Biomancer's Familiar ) and Rat makes 5 5/5s for 6 total mana and 4 cards w/ a cost reducer, while GCG makes 2 4/4s and creates card advantage for 6 mana w/ a cost reducer (and can become a 6/6 or greater with Familiar). So GCG is better at grinding than the other two, and the other two are more aggressive and cost-efficient than GCG.
You don't really need to pay attention to that analysis, it's more for my own reference later on. Personally I prefer Pteramander since it's less of a mana investment and because I want to keep the deck on the more aggressive side of the midrange spectrum. However, I can say it looks like it could be good in a more creature-heavy and grindier Training Grounds deck with Walking Ballista s and more Tasigurs and stuff.
February 7, 2019 4 p.m.
wallisface says... #10
How’ve the 20 lands treated you? Personally it feels like 22 would be a better number - i can imagine a whole lot of mulligans being required because you’re hands are land-low, or being stuck on 2 lands and never drawing a third
February 7, 2019 4:44 p.m.
Yeah, 21 lands feels like the right number to me, but 20 has actually been working well. There've been a couple games where I was on 2 lands and had to squeeze a bit to make it work, but with the cantrips you usually hit your third land drop on time, and after that you can do everything you need to. I play a faerie rogue tribal deck in paper that runs 20 lands and usually hit the third land on time, so I don't think the tests I've done so far were flukes either.
February 7, 2019 5:15 p.m.
wallisface says... #12
I’ve been running some more math on the Ptera-thang, and getting more convinced growth chamber is better.
You won’t be able to bulk-up the ptera till turn 4 at the earliest (or potentially turn 3 with a perfect hand) - i’ve assumed training grounds and thought scour are the fastest ways to get there for this math, and assumed scour will net you one additional inst/sorcery into the yard (which is generous). That’s a pretty slow clock considering you’re having to kindof invest all your resources into getting it swole, and rely on a particular starting hand.
You say the chamber-dudes are better for a grindier game, and i agree - but i think that’s where you should be heading. Even optimal fast/aggro plays with ptera will be sluggish in modern, while tasigur also wants a slower paced game to win on the value-train. Pack Rat is really the only fast-way to victory here (though the rat’s awesome and should defo stay). My 2 cents anyway. It’ll depend largely on your meta, I imagine (ptera probably wins in a world without killspells)
February 7, 2019 5:50 p.m.
Well, this is how I categorize the threats in this deck: Pack Rat is there for fast starts, Tasigur is there for the grind, and Pteramander is kind of a tempo threat like Delver (of Secrets); you beat them down while casting spells to support/activate it. The goal isn't really to win fast with Pteramander, it's to disrupt the opponent with discard and removal and stuff so you can win at leisure (like tempo, but a bit slower). It's just that the deck is also capable of speedy wins and grinding out games with the midrange cards. I'd also like to argue that you aren't really investing your resources into Pteramander but are rather just playing spells while incidentally making Pteramander huge in the process.
I don't disagree with you, but I still don't think the guardios are clearly better than the salamanders. I do believe GCG is worth playing in a deck like this, though the deck would be built differently since there isn't any need to play a ton of spells if Pteramander is cut. In other words, for those reasons, if I were to make this deck grindier and play Growth-Chamber Guardian instead of Pteramander, I'd upload it as a different deck rather than editing this one. If I changed this deck it would mean I'd have to rename it and redo the description as well, which is tedious and boring and I don't wanna do it.
Oh and I don't remember why I wanted to add this, but if I plan on beating down with Pteramander I don't play it until I can get its ability down to at least 2 by the next turn, so it's only ever on the battlefield starting turn 3 and sometimes 2 unless there's nothing else to do. Playing discard and removal or cantrips is better in the first few turns anyways, unless Pack Rat and Training Grounds are already in hand.
February 7, 2019 7:02 p.m.
SpaceSpiff20 says... #14
I really like this deck, it looks super cool. In the side board against Path to Exile , you could use Torrent Elemental , because you can cast if from exile, and it's cost to do that is lowered by your other cards, and it's also in Sultai colors!
March 27, 2019 9:37 p.m.
Thanks, it's pretty fun when it works. Unfortunately Torrent Elemental doesn't get a discount from Training Grounds or Biomancer's Familiar since you don't "control" it unless it's on the battlefield. I do also want to keep the number of non-spells in the sb low for Pteramander's ability, and Torrent Elemental isn't quite good enough to replace any of the creatures in the main deck.
Chino90 says... #1
" Biomancer's Familiar also lets you activate Pteramander multiple times". You cant adapt more than once.
February 2, 2019 10:30 a.m.