Thanks Umbreomancer for the breakdown. I've read that before and thought I was following it, but maybe as the deck has evolved I have drifted out of proper alignment. Until this most recent version I had 2 Snapcaster Mage mainboard in this version. I may switch back to 1x Blasphemous Act and 2x Snapcaster Mage . I do have a full playset and usually run 2-3. My other American deck AEtherling is Alright 8-14-13 version, which doesn't run Boros Reckoner runs 3 Snapcaster Mage mainboard. In fact, I've never actually run this version without 2x Snapcaster Mage . Very recently I have been tweaking the deck to get 2x Rolling Temblor mainboard as a mini wrath as a solution to hexproof. Last time I ran this deck I had 3x Boros Reckoner and just one Blasphemous Act . the combo worked well and since Rolling Temblor has a natural synergy with Boros Reckoner , I expanded on it at the expense of a snapcaster. Maybe that's not the right move, but partially it was in this interview with Ben Stark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojzi2JQn7gg
that led me to make the cut. You'll see why he cut down to just one Snapcaster Mage if you watch the video. With that said, I've only hit one deck with Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman while using his deck and I was still able to effectively use 2 Snapcaster Mage game 1 without issue (and sided out 2x for game 2!).
I would like to get a 2nd Snapcaster Mage in there, but I'm not sure what I would want to cut. It would probably be Blasphemous Act or possibly pushing Assemble the Legion sideboard. What do you think?
August 29, 2013 12:14 a.m.
Umbreomancer says... #3
Blasphemous Act I think would be sideboarded (Which is what I'm doing, maybe we should just compare decks), because it only really works if you can always draw Reckoner or against creature heavy decks. Try to sideboard it then put it in against things like Young Pyromancer or Bant Hexproof of course, because you always need board wipe against that freaking deck. I run 1 Assemble the legion because it's one of my four win-cons (Niv-Mizzet, Entreat the Angels , Assemble the Legion, Aetherling), but if you want to focus more on Aggro than control 2 of Assemble is perfectly fine. I still think it would be a good idea to stick Aurelia's Fury in there because it's such a versatile card, but it's your choice. I wish there was a battle feature on this website so we can see which one works better.
August 29, 2013 12:24 a.m.
Aurelia's Fury might have a place if I was going the Silence /Render Silent route as a way to prevent my opponent from casting spells, but I don't see it in this deck. It's one of those great in theory, just ok in practice type cards.
Blasphemous Act definitely stays main board since I'm running 4x Boros Reckoner . Maybe one should go sideboard for a 2nd Snapcaster Mage . As a wrath it's worked as a nice trick for me against a bant he proof deck that dropped voice, essentially I generated tokens for him on purpose just so I could get the mana cost low enough to pull the trigger.
August 29, 2013 8:56 a.m.
Umbreomancer says... #5
Good point. I didn't notice that you were running four Reckoners.I still think that Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius would be a good idea just because he's a great draw engine that works well with Aurelia, the Warleader .Have you thought about putting Chandra, Pyromaster in the deck? Her +1 would be just as good as Aurelia's Fury and her 0 would certainly help if you don't have good cards.
August 29, 2013 6:22 p.m.
The deck has plenty of draw power: 3x Sphinx's Revelation , 2x Think Twice , 3x Azorius Charm , 2x Jace, Architect of Thought , and potentially more with 2x Snapcaster Mage .
August 29, 2013 7:04 p.m.
Also the CMC of Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius makes him unplayable in a competitive environment.
August 29, 2013 8:32 p.m.
Compare Chandra's +1 to Jace AoT's +1. Her's prevents one creature from blocking, while Jace reduces power of all of your opponent's attacking creatures. She helps your offense by clearing a path while Jace helps your defense. Comparing their second ability, Jace gives you more: you get to see three cards versus one, you potentially get to keep two, and you play then when you want, both ultimates are great but Chandra's is more dependent on you drawing burn while Jace lets you take your opponent's best. Chandra is playable, but fits better in a more aggro style deck when you will be applying pressure, such as a boros deck or RDW (without access to blue). Jace is more for a control deck, which applies here. I think Jace is better at the 4 slot. You can debate on whether Ral Zarek deserves to be here, but I think Jace fits better. I do like all three.
August 30, 2013 8:18 a.m.
Umbreomancer says... #10
I can understand that. This is a really great deck; I'm just trying to give suggestions as well as get some advice for my own America deck. Maybe I'll stick in a Ral Zarek and two Jace AoT.
August 30, 2013 6:17 p.m.
I really appreciate the feedback and the discussion. I'm always fine-tuning the deck and exploring different options. If you like the deck please play test it and let me know what works and what didn't! And of course if you have an idea please share! Thanks again!
August 31, 2013 12:21 p.m.
Magiclover318 says... #12
I like this deck, I personally would not use Desolate Lighthouse for card draw because of the discard step. I really like this deck other then that.
Something to think about is Tamiyo, the Moon Sage , even though she is rotating soon she is great, also Ral Zarek for his plus one
September 1, 2013 9:56 a.m.
Izzet Staticaster combos nicely with Boros reckoner. Block with reckoner, block with staticaster, tap caster EOT to ping creatures or life totals. Gets sillier as more reconkers hit the field.
September 1, 2013 11:07 a.m.
Magiclover318, Thanks for the suggestions. I disagree with Desolate Lighthouse . It's not there for card advantage. It's to use your mana midgame where you've got your opponent top-decking and you're digging for a win-con. It also serves as a way to dig when you really need to find a solution. There are lots of other cards in the deck that provide card advantage. Some of the top standard American decks at worlds ran 2x lighthouse, but I like the 1x Slayers' Stronghold for the buff to Boros Reckoner or Restoration Angel . I tried Ral Zarek for quite awhile and he was OK. I was sad to take him out, but Jace, Architect of Thought has worked better for me (his -2 has been more useful in digging win conditions) I tried Tamiyo, the Moon Sage in one version. Too slow to get out with the other win-conditions in the deck (at the time just AEtherling and Assemble the Legion ). Ral Zarek might find a place in here post rotation.
Rotmage, interesting point. I had Izzet Staticaster sideboard in a pre-reckoner version of this deck, and never used her but tokens have gained popularity at my LGS. I don't know what I would take out for her. It would probably be Ratchet Bomb since they solve the same sort of problems, but I think the bomb answers more threats -despite the syngery between Boros Reckoner and Izzet Staticaster . Maybe post-rotation, she'll find a place in here.
Thanks guys for the feedback. I like it!
September 12, 2013 11:16 a.m.
Magiclover318 says... #15
I like Jace, Architect of Thought in here a lot better then Ral Zarek and yeah I see what you mean with Desolate Lighthouse , are you using the scry lands post rotation?
September 12, 2013 2:15 p.m.
Right now I'm only at 2x Sacred Foundry , so that that will go to 4x and I'll probably add at least 3x Temple of Triumph . Since no U/R nor a U/W scry land has been revealed, there will be some serious juggling of the mana base to do and I want to capitalize on the scry mechanic. I don't know whether that means Azorius Guildgate and Izzet Guildgate yet or not. But not having the 4x utility lands from the Innistrad block will mean adding some basic Island s in their place, which will help.
I haven't started thinking too deeply about changes (i.e. ratios) other then I will look hard at:
1. Anger of the Gods
for Rolling Temblor
& Blasphemous Act
2. Thassa, God of the Sea
(I really like this with AEtherling
in theory)
3. Purphoros, God of the Forge
(I really like this in combo with Assemble the Legion
and Elspeth, Sun's Champion
, but it may be better suited for a Boros deck)
4. Elspeth, Sun's Champion
, perhaps over Assemble the Legion
5. Omenspeaker
for Snapcaster Mage
6. Lightning Strike
for Searing Spear
7. Magma Jet
for Pillar of Flame
8. Dissolve
for Dissipate
or perhaps going with Detention Sphere
mainboard over counterspells to increase devotion
9. Curse of the Swine
10. Swan Song
for Dispel
in the sideboard
11. Cyclonic Rift
as a wrath, perhaps using 4x Anger of the Gods
and this at 3x over Supreme Verdict
, not sure yet.
Anyway, this is what's on my radar screen at the moment. One big question is how much to rely on instants for spot removal since Snapcaster Mage
will be gone. For example, using Detention Sphere
might be more effective then Turn / Burn
, as it will increase devotion to both blue and white. We still haven't seen the enchantment hate that must be in the block. Then it will take a lot of playtesting and I'll certainly looking for feedback from the tappedout community.
September 12, 2013 3 p.m.
Magiclover318 says... #17
Thassa, God of the Sea with AEtherling isn't that good of a combo since I would rather tap one blue compared to one uncolored and one blue to give it unblockable?
September 12, 2013 4:52 p.m.
Keep your devotion at 4 before casting AEtherling , he comes in and Thassa, God of the Sea becomes a creature. Exile AEtherling to reduce your devotion and Thassa, God of the Sea turns back into n enchantment (protecting the god from creature removal, such as wraths, sacrifice, etc.) Both become unblockable (Thassa, God of the Sea targets itself, AEtherling uses it's own ability). Before you resolve AEtherling , Thassa, God of the Sea scry ability helps you dig through your library faster. They work really well together,
September 12, 2013 5:05 p.m.
Magiclover318 says... #19
Ah that is interesting, I really like that, I am still trying to understand the concepts of theros, but that is a really awesome idea. :D
September 12, 2013 5:40 p.m.
I have also been trying to figure out how to get Thassa, God of the Sea into a control deck. Problem is that she will demand your devotion and other than your Jace you might struggle to get there without some changes. In this respect though, Detention Sphere , which I see you were considering anyway, becomes much more useful. By the time you get to your 6 drop you should have at least one Detention Sphere out, plus Thassa and the Aetherling makes 4 already. I have also been playing with this by also looking at Claustrophobia as an option, although Supreme Verdict makes this counter productive. Need to find some blue permanants, that escape wrath spells... For my take see Thassa's Azorius Control prototype. You might also look at Elspeth, Sun's Champion .
September 15, 2013 7:21 a.m.
Thanks sladkosan I haven't added any Theros cards yet, keeping the deck "Pre-rotation". But after the rotation Elspeth, Sun's Champion replaces Assemble the Legion . I'm considering Omenspeaker , not quite as powerful as Augur of Bolas but without the drawback either. Now that the whole set has been revealed I need to check it out.
September 15, 2013 9:49 a.m.
I just realized how much this deck costs which it is up there so many awesome cards indeed it does suck that rotation knocks out a lot of the key aspects in this brew but overall a straight up all star deck nice going. I do miss the write ups that you would do I just cleared my comments and was wondering if you could do one when or if you have time on my evolved brew Return Of The Jedi To SelesnyAggro (Theros) If you can sweet if not i do appreciate aall that you have done thus far. Thanks
October 1, 2013 1:20 p.m.
Thanks flashter. I'll do some write-ups again. I still playtest, but haven't been recording them. I think the problem with American control after the Theros release is a lack of U/R and U/W scry land. After they are released I will certainly revisit American control. For now I'm probably going to try out Esper control. Here's my prototype Heisenberg. I think it's nasty and it actually beat this deck in playtesting.
Umbreomancer says... #1
It's very true that Bant hexproof is the worst thing since Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded (It was one of only two decks that I lost against the first time I tried out my American). And it may be unconventional, but I'm definitely going to at least sideboard in Glaring Spotlight for decks like that. It's not so much that I'm praising Ral's -2 simply because it's burn, but because it's burn that doesn't cost anything. If I play Ral when the opponent has no threats out, but next turn plays something like Jace or Liliana, I can pay no mana to do three damage to it and then Warleader's Helix , Turn&Burn, or Aurelia's Fury the planeswalker to kill it.ANother thing I've noticed that you only have one Snapcaster Mage . I'm not sure if that's because you can't afford it or you purposefully put one in there, but here's some advice someone gave me on numbers of one card in your deck.
4 copies: Things you want to see in your opening hand and multiple copies throughout a game. For control, these will be removal, counterspells, or ways to get card advantage. They don't have to be 4x of a single card, but instead be 2/2 or 1/3 splits of cards with similar effects.
3 copies: Something you don't want to see in your opening hand, but you want to draw into it in a few turns.
2 copies: Something you only want to see once per game and never in your opening hand. For your deck, this will probably be 2x AEtherling , or a 1/1 split of Aetherling and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius (That's what I have).
1 copy: Something don't need in order to win, but would make winning easier. This could also be very situational spells.
Snapcaster I would see as something of a 2 or 3-of. I don't use the Snapcasters because they're rotating out, but if you're putting in them, then you want more than one.
August 28, 2013 11:33 p.m.