What's a life total? (Infect with a Plan B!)

Modern crexalbo

SCORE: 107 | 177 COMMENTS | 11918 VIEWS | IN 31 FOLDERS


crexalbo says... #1

Also, casting a kicked Vines of Vastwood in response to your opponent Path to Exile'ing the token feels really, really good.

September 25, 2015 3:41 a.m.

bromerta says... #2

Oh man that does sound fun. Might need to pick up some Geists haha

September 25, 2015 12:57 p.m.

bromerta says... #3

Do you think it would still be good in my shell? Rancor+Geist seems really powerful and I'm lacking in that department

September 25, 2015 1 p.m.

bromerta says... #4

Valorous Stance is alright but if board wipes taking out multiple guys is your issue, Presence might be right. Or one of those green spells that regen each of your creatures (can't remember the name). It is interesting because I fear 1-for-1 removal due to my low creature count but you love getting pathed because you just ramp into more creatures.

September 25, 2015 1:07 p.m.

crexalbo says... #5

You might be thinking of Golgari Charm (which i would probably sideboard if i could consistently produce ), or maybe Wrap in Vigor. What i may do instead is replace some of my Fogs and some of my Ajani's Presences with a few Dawn Charm.

Maybe something like this:
1 Ajani's Presence
3 Dawn Charm
2 Dispel (flex spot)
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Nature's Claim
1 Spell Pierce
1 Temple Garden

Or even maybe this, replacing Spell Pierce with Fog:
1 Ajani's Presence
3 Dawn Charm
2 Dispel (flex spot)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Fog
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Nature's Claim
1 Temple Garden

I think this is a good trade off. Dawn Charm really is perfect for the sideboard. If an opponent boardwipes, 99% of the time they tap out, so i don't mind being left with just one creature and an entire turn to do as i please.

September 25, 2015 3:45 p.m.

crexalbo says... #7

@bromerta: I think that Geist of Saint Traft is even better in your shell than in mine. I may also recommend Invisible Stalker to fill more spaces if you like. You have tons and tons of spells, so you have more ways to effectively push damage through. Since Geist of Saint Traft has built-in hexproof, you can even side out some of your protection to focus on the beatdown.

September 25, 2015 3:51 p.m.

bromerta says... #8

You have a point I'll test it out. Wow I never thought about Dawn Charm. I thought fog was a little underwhelming but fog, save a guy, or counter a burn/discard spell all on one card sounds very solid out of the board.

September 26, 2015 1:19 a.m.

crexalbo says... #9

Okay, i've made the changes. Now i actually have to go against some semi-decent decks. I am sooooooo tired of playing against kithkin tribal.

Does anyone know of any good free places to playtest Magic online against other people? I currently play on untap, but it is really hard to manage now that they brought along version two. I am also looking for a more competitive environment... I've never once played against a top-tier Jund deck.

September 26, 2015 2:20 a.m.

bromerta says... #10

I have heard of cockatrice being popular. Personally me and my long distance friends both use the playtest function on here and use the screen cast function on Google+ chat. But you have to be switching it on and off from turn to turn and use the hide hand function

September 26, 2015 3:33 p.m.

crexalbo says... #11

Ahh... that seems a bit unweildy (?). I'm in the process of making a new sandbox platform for playtesting, so hopefully once that goes live, it will be useful.

September 26, 2015 5:06 p.m.

bromerta says... #12

That sounds sweet. Good luck.

September 26, 2015 5:09 p.m.

crexalbo says... #13

Thank you :) In the meantime, i will continue on untap and hope to face some T1 decks.

September 26, 2015 5:14 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #14

I play tier 1 modern on untap. Abzan primarily. Jund is fine for me. Also play various t2 decks at a high level. Skred, for example. Recently I've been playing the new knightfall combo. I've been playing modern for years and play large events regularly.

If you want to hit me up on untap just comment in my wall.

September 27, 2015 7:11 a.m.

crexalbo says... #15

@ChiefBell Much obliged, good sir! :) I think i will do that when i am available.

September 27, 2015 10:55 a.m.

Felixlives says... #16

Never underestimate the awesomeness of spellskites. Since I put them in my sb I have probably sided them in 60-70% of matches. Your deck is a more or less the same as mine minus noble hierarchs still don't have them yet so am not running anything white. I like the deck I like the foils. Mine is almost all foiled out now too hopefully I can full art foil the lands after I open a case of BFZ. Surprised not to see either a wild defiance in the s/b or any might of old krosa in the mb.

September 28, 2015 1:40 a.m.

crexalbo says... #17

I don't actually own any of these cards. The foils, as my deck description states, are only there to indicate cards that i will never get rid of.

I deliberately do not run Might of Old Krosa. This is more midrange than most infect decks, and i am more focused on keeping my creatures alive and flexible than "comboing off" on the second or third turns. This is why i feature three additional creatures and Rancor, and much less true pump.

I just might work in a couple Wild Defiance into the sideboard, maybe in my flex spots. It does excite me that my Mutagenic Growths become +5/+5 pumps, but then again Wild Defiance seems a bit high on the curve... Spellskite does annoy me, but it isn't impossible to deal with; i have won against even mainboarded ones. Usually, when my opponents are busy sideboarding in their Spellskite and removal, i am busy grabbing Geist of Saint Traft anyway, which basically means all my pumps and protections just became Shocks. I like making the opponent choose between letting my Distortion Strike resolve on my Ichorclaw Myr, or paying the two life and becoming that much more vulnerable to my Geist of Saint Trafts Angel token.

September 28, 2015 1:59 a.m.

bah-bammmm says... #18

i understand adding geist, but there is a reason everyone is suggesting Might of Old Krosa. infect cannot be a midrange deck no matter what. adding geist makes it a little better, but in the end, Might of Old Krosa is a definite +4+4. Groundswell is just too risky.

September 28, 2015 9:09 p.m.

crexalbo says... #19

@bah-bammmm: I understand; however, Groundswell has proven its worth to me personally time and time again. I do periodic tests with Might of Old Krosa, but each time, its lack of flexibility as far as casting times has proven it to be inferior to Groundswell when it comes to my particular build coupled with my particular play style. Might of Old Krosa may be a definite +4/+4 during my main phase only, but Groundswell is a definite +4/+4 in my builds whenever i need it – even on my opponent's turn when i am blocking a lethal Primeval Titan, on my declare blockers step when i cast it on my unblocked Glistener Elf to get around an opposing Tarmogoyf, or on my end step to save my Inkmoth Nexus from a Lightning Helix.

If you like to use Might of Old Krosa, then that is your choice, and i respect that. A lot of people use it in place of Groundswell, and i know i am a minority. However, if you wish to convince me to use it myself, then prove its worth to me! Please do not merely say that it is better; give me specific situations in which the lack of dependence on a landfall trigger is worth sacrificing flexibility in timing.

September 28, 2015 9:49 p.m.

fuster says... #20

I feel like you should cut out your white splash altogether. Less colors = more consistency, and Geist doesn't really help you with your gameplan.

One card I'm surprised you don't have in your 75 is Wild Defiance. It makes your creatures burn-proof, and it makes your pump spells stupid.

I also feel like you could move Myr to the sideboard and main more cheap countermagic for protection.

September 28, 2015 11:18 p.m.

Felixlives says... #21

You want situations in which might of old krosa is better? Just do a search online and look at every infect deck that has EVER won a top 8 in a huge even. How many copies do you see EVERY Single infect deck run? 2-3? No 4 in every one. I mean ground swell is baller run 4 of each. The end game of infect should always be aggro face rape. Go 4 might 4 swell it's really about winning this turn. Find out what your up against and fill your sb with an alternate strategy but remember you are not playing mono black control infect your playing simic super fast aggro infect. Maybe your play style dictates your deck choices but your not the creator of infect and probably have not even piloted it in any pro tours. I'm not trying to sound like a dick or anything just trying to drive it home that infect is a well established tier1 glass cannon. I really like some of your ideas but there is a lot of people who have played this deck successfully and from their experience I derived that you should always use a super power card over a sub par situational card.

September 29, 2015 12:27 a.m.

lordmalphas says... #22

i would consider dropping a basic forest for a Dryad Arbor, for 2 reasons. reason 1 is that it gives you built in protection from liliana, as well as an alternative attacker to use maindeck instead of hierarch

September 29, 2015 11:17 a.m.

crexalbo says... #23

@Felixlives – I understand that i am an inexperienced, casual player who is only aspiring to one day become pro. If you would scroll up and read my earlier comments on the matter, then you will see me demonstrating just that. I have never taken this or any deck on a Pro Tour; i have only been to FNM once, for ORI draft; i haven't even built or proxied this deck in person, and all my playtesting has been online. I have never claimed this deck is better than any other infect build out there, and i do not attempt to mislead people to believe otherwise. This build is highly experimental in two ways: (a) it runs more creatures and less utility, which tends to make games a turn or two longer, and (b) it has a backup game plan in the form of Geist of Saint Traft, which seeks to win the game through life loss and not through infect damage.

I understand this doesn't look like a "normal" infect deck. This is not a glass cannon build; its overall strategy is not to "go off", although it does have a diminished capacity to do just that. I have indeed read all the primers, looked at countless lists right here on tappedout, and i also regularly check on the status of infect as described in the Tier 1 Modern definitions and archetypes on the mtgsalvation forums, where infect usually lives in tier 2 but occasionally makes its way to the top. Based on everything i have come across, infect decks typically look something like this, which i pulled off the top of my head:
Mainboard
4 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills or another fetchland
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
2 Forest
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 flex spots, i have seen Become Immense, Serum Visions, and Wild Defiance here.
Sideboard
4 Nature's Claim
3 Spellskite
3 Twisted Image
3 Wild Defiance
2 Dispel

If i wanted my list to look like that, i would have copy/pasted from a pro tour deck, and put a link in the description. The whole point, which other users who took an honest look at the deck (like bromerta) were able to understand, was that this is not the typical infect build. It does not seek to combo off on turn two or three. It seeks to reliably win using a combination of methods. I don't even run a full playset of Groundswell, the disputed card! In fact, i run exactly the same amount of Rancor and Distortion Strike. That alone should tell you that my game plan is different.

The only argument you used to support Might of Old Krosa is as follows: "You want situations in which might of old krosa is better? Just do a search online and look at every infect deck that has EVER won a top 8 in a huge even. How many copies do you see EVERY Single infect deck run? 2-3? No 4 in every one." This kind of argument is a logical fallacy known as the bandwagon appeal. In addition, you haven't taken into consideration that this deck is not like those top 8 decks and has a very diffetent strategy. Might of Old Krosa may be better in those decks, but my build plays differently and has different requirements. So i am going to outline two arguments below, one in favor of Might of Old Krosa and one in favor of Groundswell.

Might of Old Krosa Infect is all about dealing ten damage, so that's what i need to focus on. The +4/+4 boost that Might of Old Krosa and Groundswell both give are extremely important, because that plus the creature's one power make five, exactly half of ten. I need to reliably make this +4 P/T boost; 8 poison doesn't win games. Since the Groundswell landfall trigger is unreliable, Might of Old Krosa gives me another chance to hit that sweet spot. I can also force interactive plays to happen during my main phase by playing my instants and sorceries then, so i get a chance to use this powerful, unconditional pump spell.

Groundswell Infect needs creatures to work, so i want to keep my creatures alive whenever i can. To that end, i need as much protection as i can get my hands on. Even though Might of Old Krosa guarantees the full power boost during my main phase, i expect my opponent to interact with me at other times as well. I might need a blocker to save me from my opponent's massive beatstick, or i may not have evasion when i attack a team of infectors into a wall of creatures, or my opponent may wait till my end step to cast that Lightning Bolt on my creature. Sure, Might of Old Krosa is better on the offense, but i would rather sacrifice some of that speed to gain both consistency and flexibility. Even though i will not hit landfall every single time, i hit it often enough to where Groundswell's lack of timing restrictions for the full boost really shine through.

I personally chose Groundswell because i am more in line with that particular philosophy. The typical infect build, while using colors, is very in its nature and strategy – go all-out against your opponent and overwhelm them. My build is more -colored in its execution – aggro when i want it, control when i need it.

Groundswell fits well in this deck; that is my opinion, not fact. However, i do own this deck, so i think i will keep Groundswell right where it is. However, if anyone can come up with a convincing argument in favor of Might of Old Krosa as it pertains to this build and strategy, then i am more than willing to listen and possibly even switch.

Now, on to addressing the constructive criticism i have received.

@fuster – I know that the white splash creates inconsistency issues; this is why i sideboard Temple Garden, so the main deck is solely . Really, the whole splash for was to allow for Geist of Saint Traft sideboard. After that, well... all of the goodies were open to me, and i just couldn't resist. I only have 13 white sources after sideboarding (7 fetches, 4 Noble Hierarchs, Temple Garden, Gemstone Mine)... and this is quite low. So i've done my best to limit my splash. If you can think of good replacenemts for Dawn Charm and Ajani's Presence, then i would be more than happy to hear them!

Also, Geist of Saint Traft doesn't contribute to my infect strategy at all. It does allow me to just beat them to death if i need to, though. It is really common for opponents to side in Dismember and Spellskite against me. Geist of Saint Traft allows me to effectively punish my opponents for wasting so much life on their shocklands and removal. It's a surprise strategy that is surprisingly effective, and i think i will keep it. You should try playtesting it!

@lordmalphas – I agree that Dryad Arbor is an amazing card. However, when i mainboarded it, i realized i kept running into it way too often. The land creature does not produce mana the turn it comes into play (!); my deck sadly cannot afford such a huge loss of tempo. Against Liliana of the Veil, i typically have multiple creatures; i run 19 creatures mainboard (counting Inkmoth Nexus), so i can usually survive one or even two sac effects. I don't need it as a backup beater G1, because my strategy G1 is infect; however, i will sideboard it because it is useful in every situation you proposed. Again, if it produced mana the turn it came into play, i would immediately mainboard it like you suggested!

September 29, 2015 4:53 p.m.

fuster says... #24

Like I mentioned already, try replacing Dawn Charm and Ajani's Presence with Wild Defiance. This should be somewhere in your 75, and I'd go as far as to suggest maindecking this card if you need to.

September 29, 2015 5:38 p.m.

crexalbo says... #25

@fuster I think i will take you up on that. Maybe not replacing Dawn Charm, but Wild Defiance really is good in here.

September 29, 2015 7:27 p.m.

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