PlattBonnay says... #2
Additionally, my example didn't take into account Puresteel Paladin's second ability or the additional benefits of the sword triggers.
June 29, 2014 4:11 p.m.
slovakattack says... #3
PlattBonnay: ...Yeah, that's pretty damn badass. Think I should switch out the 1 drop Steelshaper's Gift for an AEther Vial ? I mean, having an artifact tutor is great, but the more chances I have to get that T1, the better. They both make the deck more consistent in different ways.
June 29, 2014 4:12 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #4
Yeah, consistency is key in any deck, I'm not sure which would be better because there are some matchups that you have to be as fast as possible, and others that will be long and grindy and you'll need specific tools at exactly the right moment. Basically...look at your local meta, and if more matchups require you to be fast, mainboard aether vial and sideboard the singleton Steelshaper's Gift. If more matchups require you to play a war of attrition, mainboard the Steelshaper's Gift and sideboard a singleton aether vial.
June 29, 2014 4:26 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #5
Also, another possible addition to your creature base could be Leonin Shikari because of its synergy with Lightning Greaves and Puresteel Paladin
June 29, 2014 4:30 p.m.
slovakattack says... #6
PlattBonnay: That sounds fair! One last question: Do you think that Indomitable Archangel
is a good slot for the deck, or would that slot be better suited to more aggression? In a deck like this. the more high-priority targets I can throw out, the easier it is to force the opponent into a lose-lose situation, removal-wise. I like that the Angel's protection for all my artifacts makes it one, and that I can perma-shroud it as well, but it does not add any real raw power to the deck. (although the 4/4 flying is nice), it really depends on the meta, and may wind up just sitting there for utility's sake.)
June 29, 2014 4:31 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #7
I actually think that you should consider swapping it out for a more control-ish flyer. It's metal craft ability is decent, but the main non-creature artifact hate that I see is hurkyls recall or stony silence, both of which don't care about shroud. I think that swapping it out for a couple copies of Restoration Angel or Aven Mindcensor or Hushwing Gryff (from M15) would be good for this deck because they are all disruption at the same time as being flying sword carriers. Resto saves your creatures, while the other two mess with your opponents plans. Also, having flash-able creatures just gives this deck more ways to respond to opponents rather than simply playing out creatures and equipments and hoping to not have it blown up before you untap.
June 29, 2014 4:39 p.m.
slovakattack says... #8
PlattBonnay: Interesting. If I take the angel out, then I can no longer do the infinite shroud loop. Should I still keep in Lightning Greaves for the utility, or would it better serve me to put a controlish flyer and perhaps either more swords, or some Steelshaper's Gift ?
As much as the Leonin Shikari would be a nice buff to the deck, it is neither a knight, nor does it really do enough on it's own to warrant it's placement, in my opinion. If I were doing a more solider-ish deck with things like Honor the Pure, maybe. But this deck is too tribal for it's inclusion.
June 29, 2014 4:44 p.m.
slovakattack says... #9
Perhaps Angelic Overseer ? I know it isn't a great card, but I like the flavor. Plus, it's a nice carrier for the swords.
June 29, 2014 4:49 p.m.
slovakattack says... #10
Or perhaps Herald of War ? Or do you think I should just stick with control, as opposed to buff/protection?
June 29, 2014 4:50 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #11
I think that getting the angel on the board and then greaves attached to it requires a mana investment of 6, which I think, in an equipment-centric weenie deck, is far too much. I recommended the other flyers because they have flash so you can hold up mana for a protection/removal spell and then at the very worst you can flash it in at the end of your opponents turn and suit it up with whatever swords you had on the board to swing in over their ground troops.
As for those other fliers, I don't think that anything that costs 5 that doesn't immediately end the game doesn't really have a place in Modern (Tron playing Wurmcoil/Karn/Emrakul/etc not withstanding)
However I should probably mention that I am personally a control/tempo player so I tend to look at decks and make suggestions as such a player.
June 29, 2014 5:35 p.m.
slovakattack says... #12
PlattBonnay: I hear ya. But, also consider that Sword of Feast and Famine untaps all of my mana if I get a strike in with it, so I may have more mana to work with by turn 4 than you'd think. That being said, I think the best creatures for this slot at the moment are CMC 4-5rs that would either buff my other knights or give me control of the board.
I actually do like what the Archangel does; protecting my artifacts and all. Then there are things like Platinum Angel (normally a meh card, but with shroud, etc...)
Here's an interesting idea: What do you think of imo one of the more underrated cards in the game: Angelic Skirmisher . It's a CMC 6, yes, but if you get that out successfully and have any sort of board presence, the game is basically over.
On the other hand, do you think I should just replace the slot with some more CMC 2s, such as the Leonin Shikari , Accorder Paladin or for 3, Fiendslayer Paladin ? It would certainly help the aggro, but would sacrifice overall control/protection to do so.
On the other-other-hand, perhaps cutting out the angels and adding 1 AEther Vial and a few Steelshaper's Gift might be the way to go...
June 29, 2014 5:50 p.m.
slovakattack says... #13
PlattBonnay: I just had a thought. If I put in another AEther Vial or maybe two, how about Ethersworn Canonist ? It wouldn't really affect me, due to the fact that AEther Vial 's active does not count as a spell, so I could still play a creature, then tap Aether vial to play another if I wanted. Or I would just play a creature, then an artifact- and it could be extremely crippling for an opponent. Maybe 3x Ethersworn Canonist as a sideboard?
June 29, 2014 7:58 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #14
The thing to remember about all of these high cost cards that you are considering is that they don't really do anything on the turn they come down. Consider the most played 5 drop in modern: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker . His effect is instantly put to use and he usually just wins games right after he hits the board. With all of the angels you've mentioned you have to untap with them before you can start getting value. Remember that even though the Sword of Feast and Famine untaps all your lands, your mana pool will be emptied at the end of each phase so you can't float all your mana before untapping your lands. However, in terms of sideboard cards I do like Ethersworn Canonist I used to have a legacy esper stoneblade list that I used them in and they were very effective in a large number of matchups.
June 29, 2014 8:20 p.m.
slovakattack says... #15
PlattBonnay: True, true. What do you think of the smaller creatures as replacements? (Leonin Shikari , or Accorder Paladin , Fiendslayer Paladin , etc.)
Or how about just throwing in another Vial, and 2 Steelshaper's Gift ?
June 29, 2014 8:23 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #16
Adding another vial is never a bad idea (unless you already have 4) and tutors are almost always a good addition to a deck. Just make sure that you have enough creatures to play out as threats. With the 3 you listed there I think that Accorder Paladin is the best and Fiendslayer Paladin is the worst, but Leonin Shikari could be the worst if you don't get any equipment on the board.
June 29, 2014 8:42 p.m.
slovakattack says... #17
PlattBonnay: I see. Do you think that just sticking with the angel currently has merit, or is it 100% replaceable?
June 29, 2014 8:47 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #18
I think that it really depends on the meta you play in. If it is largely combo decks that are killing on turn four and five, I would cut the angels completely. However if your meta is full of "fair decks" like zoo or burn, I think that you could keep the angel in as a singleton or maybe a two of. I definitely think that 3 is too many 4+ drops though.
June 29, 2014 8:49 p.m.
slovakattack says... #19
PlattBonnay: Cool, that sounds fair. I do like the idea of the Leonin Shikari , but as cool as it is, and as trolly as it would be with Lightning Greaves out, (All creatures gain hexproof vs. single target spells, hue) everything else just seems absolutely required.
I'm going to cut out an angel, def.
June 29, 2014 8:56 p.m.
slovakattack says... #20
PlattBonnay: Oh, and before I forget: Thank you so much for your help! I'm fairly new to magic, so getting help from someone so knowledgeable is a real experience for me.
June 29, 2014 8:59 p.m.
PlattBonnay says... #21
No problem, I like helping people with their deck lists because I know that it can sometimes be a daunting task to build a deck that isn't just a top tier clone. If you're looking to do some more research, check out a site like mtggoldfish.com or mtgtop8.com and look at which decks have been winning the majority of events. These are the decks that you probably want to build your sideboard around. The modern big 3 in my opinion is Pod, Twin, and Robots, but the numbers of each deck tend to change from week to week. Good luck with the deck, it looks pretty solid but just keep playtesting and you'll quickly figure out what works as planned and what doesn't.
June 29, 2014 9:07 p.m.
Just some thoughts on how to help improve your deck play out a little:
I feel like you should be running 4 copies of Steelshaper's Gift main board and only one of each sword (including Sword of War and Peace ).As for other pieces of equipment to run I would consider using ones that synergize more with Puresteel Paladin by giving you free draws. Example would be Bone Saw or Paradise Mantle or even Accorder's Shield . This would give you much more draw power and removing some other not - so - amazing pieces allow you to fit in 2-4 Wrath of God for cleanup purposes.
Hopefully I've been of some help for you with your deck. Good luck and have fun :)
June 30, 2014 12:36 a.m.
slovakattack says... #24
safearus: These are some pretty interesting suggestions. I'll try to tackle them one at a time.
In terms of Steelshaper's Gift , It's a great card, and if I had the room I'd run 2-3 in the deck, but in my opinion it's no replacement for the Swords themselves. Taking out most of the swords is not something I agree with (and trust me when I say that it's hard for me not to like this idea, as it means -50 bucks at least to the deck if I do), as it
A. Makes the deck too dependent on Steelshaper's Gift , turning the card into a pin.
B. Slows down the deck by a turn, as it essentially makes the swords cost 4 mana, not three.
On the subject of Sword of War and Peace , I am not a huge fan, as the benefits that it offers are too situational. Sword of Light and Shadow offers the same healing factor, but standardized (which is a benefit, in my opinion) as well as card return, which is a nice rebound versus some early Knight Exemplar or Puresteel Paladin hate. One thing I do admit is that protection from R/W does slot in nicely with Mirran Crusader 's own protection, but the same can be said for Sword of Fire and Ice .
I am also not convinced of the efficacy of cards like Bone Saw and Paradise Mantle . This deck is not lacking for mana. All of it's creatures are low cost, and with AEther Vial , it has no problem getting the creatures and mana it needs, and I see no tangible benefit to be gained from Paradise Mantle . Likewise for Bone Saw , the mechanics of the deck are simply able to cheat out better, more impactful equipment. Accorder's Shield is neat, and has the tangible benefit of being good for stall and aggression, but again, the swords are better.
Now, there is one tangible benefit to these 'free artifacts' that you mentioned, causing these cards to be more useful than the blades for a single purpose: Card draw. Running these cards would certainly increase my draw rate, which of course cannot be underestimated as an advantage... but at what cost? Gaining +1/+0 is a negligible benefit.The deck currently has 16 artifacts (12 Artifacts, 4 Artifact Lands) and I believe it has enough draw with those numbers to get the job done.
In respect to Wrath of God , in a pinch I can switch out Brave the Elements for 3 Wrath of God , or more likely, 2 Wrath of God and 1 Steelshaper's Gift .
I would like to know what parts of the deck you would consider 'not-so-amazing', and your reasoning behind the thought process- the feedback you've given me is great so far! =)
June 30, 2014 2:23 a.m.
My view of the "not - so - amazing" cards for this deck would be some of the higher on the mana curve cards that are more situation - based than most. Those cards would include:
Indomitable Archangel
Lightning Greaves
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
As for reasoning and the thought process involved: it's all about consistency.
The Indomitable Archangel is only worth having in the case you have 3 artifacts already in play and a set of greaves to protect her. This is all fine if it's always the case, however with the amount of artifact removal used in the modern format we can't expect that many pieces to sit on the table untouched for this period of time. We're more likely to have pieces destroyed before she hits play or a removal spell hit the stack in response to her being cast.
Lightning Greaves are a generally considered fantastic piece of equipment. Shroud AND Haste are both awesome abilities we want on most of our creatures. However, this piece of equipment turns into a lightning rod the second it hits play. Most people see this piece of equipment as protection for a combo piece and anything you equip will instantly be considered a threat and target. For this reason I don't like the greaves. Swords give us as much of this problem as we want already, no point in having more.
As for Elspeth, Knight-Errant , I love this card. It's amazing almost everywhere it's played. However with the strategy this deck wants she is nothing more than a token generator and not exactly the most efficient at that when compared to things like another well known knight from the days of Mirrodin Besieged. Hero of Bladehold not only produces more tokens, she gets buffed from Knight Exemplar and she has battle-cry built in.
The key to this style of deck is consistently producing the same general result as often as possible. This is the same reason I had suggested the 0 drop equipment. Sure Paradise Mantle seems bad because we don't need the extra mana, but when we can play it, hit metalcraft, and equip Sword of Fire and Ice for free and draw a card, there really is no downfall. It also allows us to trick people into thinking we're tapped out on their turn and can't use Brave the Elements . But with the mantle on our more often than not blocking Knight Exemplar we have a Birds of Paradise for that one white mana we need.This piece of equipment also eliminates that turn 3 can't cast my sword after Steelshaper's Gift issue you had mentioned. With this beauty we can cast steelshapers gift and cast the sword on turn 3. Heck played out right we'll have it equipped the same turn for free!On another note in that cards defense, it really is a pin for this style of deck. You should always want to find the correct sword for your corresponding matchup. Sword of Fire and Ice is awesome, but doesn't stop Abrupt Decay from eating our creatures. The only reason you want to run so many of the swords is consistently getting them into play and Steelshaper's Gift isn't just consistent, it let's you choose your weapon.
That's my main reason for wanting only one of each sword. Gives more slots for other options and upping the Steelshaper's Gift to a 4 of gives you the consistency of having a whole bunch of swords.
As for the Bone Saw , yes it seems underwhelming if you look at it as an effect of a mere +1/+0 buff. But for free how can that not be strong? Not to mention it's almost +2 damage when equipped onto Mirran Crusader . And I've never been one to turn down a free draw. Free card advantage is almost like playing solitaire if you get enough of it. Putting 12 copies (in total) of free equipment in your deck could theoretically be 12 drawn cards in one turn. That's a ton of power hitting the board and I guarantee that at least 80% of the time from 12 cards you'll land a sword or Steelshaper's Gift which would produce a sword of your choice.
I hope my insight of opinion helps you improve your deck and you have fun playing it.
:)
PlattBonnay says... #1
If you're still not sure of how good aether vial is, imagine this line of play:
T1: plains, Aether Vial.
T2: plains, one counter on the vial, hard cast Puresteel Paladin, EOT vial in Student of Warfare.
T3: plains, two counters on the vial, vial in another Puresteel Paladin, hard cast any sword, draw two cards.
T4: plains, three counters on the vial, equip one paladin with the sword, swing for X damage and triggers, play Lightning Greaves, draw two cards, EOT vial in Mirran Crusader.
T5: plains, three counters on the vial, play another sword, draw two cards, equip to Mirran Crusader 1, vial in another Mirran Crusader, equip Lightning Greaves to Mirran Crusader 2, swing for X damage and triggers.
With Aether Vial, by turn 5, you've triggered Puresteel Paladin 6 times, gotten 2 swords onto the board, 4 relevant creatures and a chump blocker. Even with a complete nut draw there is no way you can achieve anything close to this kind of board presence without Aether Vial in the deck.
June 29, 2014 4:09 p.m.