An Insight into All - Visions and Nightmares
Standard
SCORE: 26 | 42 COMMENTS | 6956 VIEWS | IN 8 FOLDERS
CrazyLittleGuy says... #2
Oh, and an update from playtesting; I ended up going 3-1 at FNM with this build (before the update,) losing only to a top decked Searing Spear during game 3 against a Big Red deck.
I learned something important, too. Desecration Demon + all this removal = absolutely crushes Jund Midrange. It wasn't even a close match, albeit the Jund player wasn't pulling perfect hands like I was at the time. Even better, though, is that the majority of this deck will still be legal post-rotation in a few weeks, with some minor changes.
I'm considering Thassa, even though she would never be a creature. She would fill the vacancy in 3-drops left by my Ooze and the Nighthawk. The scry could really help this deck in the long game, as I'm notorious among my playgroup for top-decking lands. Plus, unblockable on any of my big creatures would just be ridiculous. Any opinions?
@NeoCowboy: Thanks for the feedback, glad you like it! I'm definitely with you on the weird variants of archetypes, it adds to the experience for me. It's just fun finding and using those synergies that normally don't find there way into the standard metagame, plus it becomes pretty difficult for my opponents to side in anything particularly useful post-board.
September 11, 2013 10:39 p.m.
stagemadness says... #3
Would Read the Bones better serve you than Underworld Connections ? Or are they for black devotion? You have a lot of means for card advantage, which is what keeps this deck ticking, so the scry on Read the Bones could lead to more advantageous draws. Just a thought - I really like your creature list, particularly because I happen to have all of them :D
October 11, 2013 3:47 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #4
@stagemadness
I considered that as well, but Underworld Connections fits really well currently. Not only does it help with the black devotion, but the deck frequently goes into the long game, and having a consistent draw engine open can push me to victory. Plus, a lot of abilities/spells in the deck are instant; if possible, I like to have the option open to cast my spells on my opponent's turn, so Underworld Connections works great with that strategy. I appreciate the feedback though! I'll still give Read the Bones a shot in some casual play to see how it works, thanks!
October 11, 2013 3:54 p.m.
templarsfall says... #5
I'd cut Putrefy for Hero's Downfall if you could, seems to be better versatility overall, as not many power house artifacts in the set right now. Also Whip of Erebos Lifelink, its important, especially in matches that have creatures that out scale yours.
-3 Deathrite Shaman +3 Elvish Mystic
October 12, 2013 9:32 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #6
@templarsfall
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm a bit hesitant at the moment to add more four drops . I actually toyed with Duskmantle Seer a while back, but I just wound up bleeding myself too much when matched up with most other decks. The curve on this one is pretty high, relative to most standard decks currently.
Whip of Erebos is actually a pretty good idea though. I was looking for a way to add more lifelink, and the creature recursion is another great way to get card advantage. Will try that one out, thanks! (not sure about pulling Underworld Connections since it becomes a ridiculous draw engine over time, but I'll try it)
Deathrite Shaman is just too good to pull for me. An awesome card, all around.. Although I do need a bit of ramp outside of Sylvan Caryatid since I've found myself hitting four mana and stalling a lot recently, I'll actually try out a few more elves to help out with that.
I also totally agree on the removal change. Putrefy is actually only in there because of the 'can't regen' clause, wipes Varolz and Lotleth easily, but I've been having trouble with planeswalkers more than them. Thanks for the feedback!
October 15, 2013 2:56 p.m.
templarsfall says... #7
Could always try Urban Evolution instead of Opportunity It works better for me personally, and it can get you those lands you so badly need. I run 2 in Boots Cost Money.
October 16, 2013 2:04 a.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #8
Hmm, that's actually a really good idea. I would lose the instant speed there, but I could easily deal with that if I get to play that extra land right after I refill my hand. Thanks! Will update.
Also, how do you feel about Scavenging Ooze ? I mean, he's a great card and all, but I find more often than not that I would prefer to target the graveyard items with a Deathrite Shaman Even if he's not getting big I have plenty of other big guys to supplement that. Plus I way prefer dropping a Sylvan Caryatid on turn two.
October 16, 2013 10:57 a.m.
templarsfall says... #9
I think that Scavenging Ooze is a good side board card, against the mono-color devotion decks, it gives lots of targets for your removal and the ooze will keep your life tanked off as you remove creature after creature after creature.
October 16, 2013 6:42 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #10
You could use Thoughtseize or Duress to help combat the control matchups to rip out their 'walkers, counterspells, or draw cards like Sphinx's Revelation out before they can use them.
Instead of Swan Song , why not use Gainsay to counter their counterspell?
Why the Gaze of Granite in the sideboard? wouldn't Ratchet Bomb be better on the mana as you can get it earlier to thwart aggro/tokens?
here's a BUG list I've been working on as a side project. Let's compare notes! +1
October 18, 2013 12:03 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #11
I had been thinking Thoughtseize but the biggest issue for now is that I don't know what I'd pull for it. I mean, if I'm going to drop that much cash I think it should be mainboard at least to get some more use, plus it would help with my card advantage even more. Got any suggestions on what to pull?
Gainsay would probably work pretty well too for that situation... I think I might mix the two a bit. I mean, Swan Song works for plenty of other situations besides counterspells, and a 2/2 bird isn't too big of an issue for this deck. Although Gainsay could snag an AEtherling for me... hmm
The Gaze of Granite is honestly just a pet card of mine :P But you're totally right, Ratchet Bomb would work way better. Not only is it easier on the mana but there's a chance I could save my early game creatures like Deathrite Shaman and Sylvan Caryatid
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll update soon and check out your deck too, my first impressions tell me it's a pretty well built deck!
October 18, 2013 2:30 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #12
Oh the cards I mentioned were for sideboard...the main board looks good already :)
I have even entertained splashing red for Rakdos's Return and Slaughter Games in the sideboard for my deck because control seems to be my only "bad" matchup
October 18, 2013 3:03 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #13
vs control decks, Gainsay , Thoughtseize , and Duress will take care of those "pesky" cards
What would be best is to isolate WHAT part of the control decks gave you problems...was it the counterspells? their win cons? or the fact they have card draw with things like Sphinx's Revelation . Once you determine what part gave them the "edge" over you, you can plan your strategy accordingly.
Supreme Verdict gets "countered" by Golgari Charm
Sphinx's Revelation can be answered with Gainsay or Dispel
Depending on win cons, Hero's Downfall can take care of things like Elspeth, Sun's Champion , and Pithing Needle is also good against them but can be used vs AEtherling if need be
If it's the "extra card draw" in general that's letting them come from behind, a well timed Notion Thief can thwart their plans as well
Hope this helps!
October 21, 2013 10:18 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #14
Oh yeah, and against the control decks try not to overcommit to the board or else Supreme Verdict gets maximum value. Things to follow up on this could be Dreg Mangler due to haste and having an ability after IT dies. Underworld Connections could also be good to help you keep up in the card drawing that control decks have
October 21, 2013 10:21 a.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #15
Board sweeps are the biggest problem honestly. I have trouble recovering from Supreme Verdict unless I already have an awesome draw engine coming up or in play. Then I also have trouble when an AEtherling come down, or an Obzedat, or something like that.
Thanks for the suggestions! I've made some updates to the main, adding in Thoughtseize and re-adding Underworld Connections to help against control. Thoughtseize works against any deck, really, but especially control. I've also added more Golgari Charm and Pithing Needle in the sideboard.
I don't know about Notion Thief though. I think I'd prefer to just have a counter in hand against a Sphinx's Revelation so I don't have to leave so much mana open.
October 21, 2013 12:23 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #16
And that's actually the better choice. If it's Supreme Verdict that's giving you fits, then go to 3 x Golgari Charm to thwart it. Either that or use hand disruption a turn before they can cast it to get it out of their hand (wait until your turn 4 to use it unless they are ramping as the earliest they can cast it is turn 4 without ramp and this gives you the best chance to get something good from their hand).
Instead of Prime Speaker Zegana , how bout Deadbridge Chant ? This will help you regain card advantage and will be an overall better card vs control matchups rather than a possible 2/2 for 6 that draws you 2 cards
October 21, 2013 2:30 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #17
I would also go to 24 lands minimum with 5 and 6 drops. hard to cast without mana :)
Essence Scatter has been my go to card vs Ghost Dad and AEtherling myself as they will not usually cast AEtherling unless they are at 7 mana and Ghost Dad is mana intensive and usually comes down the same time/turn. Leaving mana up to counter them is brutal in itself if they don't have a counter to your counterspell
October 21, 2013 2:35 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #18
Thanks harrydemon117! I really appreciate the help you're giving me on this.
I don't know about Deadbridge Chant , I actually tried it out a while back when this deck was in its early stages and ran the risk of milling myself out during some longer games. With Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver running around, that becomes an even bigger issue. Plus Prime Speaker Zegana is a good target for a late game Whip of Erebos , in fact I can think of no better target. I have had to drop her for 1 or 2 before, but that's only after a Supreme Verdict . With those Charms, I might be alright.
Great suggestion on the Essence Scatter too. I think I might actually run that before Gainsay , so that I can use Swan Song or Dispel to counter their counterspells or Sphinx's. Gainsay was really only in there for AEtherling , but it would be great to have the option to snag Obzedat or Blood Baron. Will update.
I've actually done fine with mana though. With Sylvan Caryatid , the scry abilities, and all the card draw, I can hit the land drops I need pretty consistently.
What are your thoughts on Curse of the Swine ? I'm currently running it as a one-of, because worst case scenario I spend three mana to make an indestructible god into a 2/2. Best case, I wait until late game and wipe their whole board. Even better if I have a Ratchet Bomb or Cyclonic Rift in hand for added destruction.
October 21, 2013 3:18 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #19
It's ok, but I think it's not needed. When they cast one of the god cards, it is still a creature and can be countered with Essence Scatter if you're worried about it. using your removal on their creatures keeps the devotion down so they can't use them to attack. another great trick is to have them declare their attackers, destroy their "killable" creatures with removal, and then the god ceases becoming a creature and is no longer attacking.
October 22, 2013 9:49 a.m.
Awesome looking deck. Have you considered: Boon of Erebos , Golgari Charm , Simic Charm or Giant Growth ? Just something to think about.
Gonna give you a +1 since I love bug and golgari. If you wouldn't mind checking out my deck and leaving some suggestions and a +1 if you like it, i'd appreciate it. Link is here: The Name's Agent, Fate's Agent.
October 27, 2013 2:42 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #21
One last suggestion. Instead of the Opportunity I've found that using Inspiration was a tad better as you can use it earlier and STILL have mana open for removal when your land count >= 6. Just a thought in case you don't get to use it as often.
Also, I know he's expensive but Jace, Architect of Thought will be better 90% of the time main than Jace, Memory Adept
October 29, 2013 8:10 a.m.
templarsfall says... #22
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx You have enough devotion on the field in your creature selection that you could almost always get something out of this, big fat, bug fatties with devotion...touche!
October 29, 2013 9:48 a.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #23
That's a pretty good point, lowering the curve would help. Opportunity is really only in there as an instant speed Prime Speaker Zegana that kind of makes up for my lack of Sphinx's Revelation
Jace, Architect of Thought would definitely be a million times better than Jace, Memory Adept . I'll toss him in, and my wallet will cry a little.
I guess you're right on that. Even after a board wipe, I usually have some black devotion from Underworld Connections and Whip of Erebos . I'll try it out, although being a legendary land I only want to run it as a one-of. In this deck, I can't really afford to hit a dead land early game.
Thanks guys!
October 29, 2013 10:11 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #24
Nice job at the FNM! and glad to hear my suggestions made a difference :)
I would mainboard the Scavenging Ooze s and SB 2 x Deathrite Shaman . Most of the time creatures will be in the graveyard vs aggro and you can grow your oozes bigger mid-late game vs them.
Against control, THEN Deathrite Shaman shines and makes them pay for using a lot of instants/sorcery spells mwahahahaha.
I won't be able to try my list out for a couple of weeks as I have a 3 week old at home now which takes up a lot of my time outside of work.
Keep up the good work and let me know if you come across any interesting tidbits of information!
My updated list is here: Does it BUG you when I scry?
October 30, 2013 9:44 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #25
Oh and don't forget Golgari Charm is EXCELLENT sideboard tech vs Master of Waves as it will take out ALL of them (even if there are multiples on board)
NeoCowboy says... #1
Its not bad!! I'm a fan of weird and new take on archtypes. like i made a RuG enchantment deck and people couldnt deal with it. I was tired of Bant Enchantments so i removed White for red and had a load of fun new enchantments!
September 9, 2013 8:48 p.m.