Ancestral Animar

Commander / EDH JMCraig

SCORE: 170 | 919 COMMENTS | 105881 VIEWS | IN 111 FOLDERS


JMCraig says... #1

So who'se excited for Dockside Extortionist? This guy does a LOT for the deck. He's the new best mana-positive effect we have, given that he can consistently make several mana of any color on ETB and that we can spend that mana whenever we want. I see him filling the same role as something like Tinder Wall or BLoom Tender, except with almost none of the same awkward timing/color restrictions, AND he leaves a body behind to copy/bounce.

Perhaps more importantly, as another experienced brewer and pilot, BunBunFriedRice, pointed out to me on Reddit he makes the Kiri Onna line A TON Better. Now we can simply loop this little guy instead of Peregrine Drake, meaning we don't need to run the latter, whom I personally disliked for the deck, and we don't need a critical mass of certain lands in play. It's hard to overstate how big a deal that is, since that lands restriction was a real pain in my ass trying to get the combo to work consistently (and I hate playing mediocre cards like Hinterland Harbor!)

So my question is: what do we cut? I'm thinking the GSZ+Dryad Arbor pair can prob come out, since we really do have a super high density of good tutors, and Dryad is such an awkward little card (no cast trigger, and summoning sickness).

Cut:

  • GSZ
  • Dryad

Add:

  • Dockside Extortionist
  • Kiri (Welcome back!)

WHat do you think? I'm personally thrilled this deck keeps getting such awesome new tech even when we least expect it (looking at you, Shared Summons and Paiter in the same month)

August 8, 2019 12:05 a.m.

JMCraig says... #2

Oh, man, I also forgot to mention, with Kiri back in the deck it becomes easier to win without Ballista. Since the loop with Drake/Dockside is mana-positive and incorporates Recruiter, we're also able to loop and Tutor/Draw and Recursion ETBs we want, and thus are cast whatever the hell we want as many times as we want rather than just Ballista everyone out. So stuff like the old Swan-Attack line become possible, or we can infinitely pump whatever we want with Generous Patron, destroy a bunch of permanents with Cratermaker/Caterpillar, etc. We can't loop our deck like we could with a traditional Twister loop, but we have a source of infinite free recurion just by cloning E Wit. Pretty spicy stuff.

August 8, 2019 12:22 a.m.

SaberTech says... #3

Yep, I'm really happy to see Dockside Extortionist. I think another potential slot you could cut is Coiling Oracle . As good as the Oracle is, I've found that always being required to pay both a blue and green mana for it makes it a bit clunky. That being said, It's still a 2 CMC cantrip creature. I think that GSZ would definitely be my first pick to cut. I was about to ask what you considered your primary target for GSZ to be until I read your latest comments.

August 8, 2019 1:10 a.m.

JMCraig says... #4

yeah, shaving GSZ and oracle seems solid, and it lets me slot a better land back in, like Reflecting pool. good call.

August 8, 2019 1:17 a.m.

SaberTech says... #5

So Dockside Extortionist is already starting to show the fun it can potentially offer. I was goldfishing a few hands and had a pretty slow start with a turn two Tinder Wall and a turn three Animar. I had the Extortionist, a few 2 CMC creatures, and Weird Harvest in hand. I cracked the Wall to play the Extortionist, and realized that if this was a game where my opponents had enough mana rocks and enchantments out for me to get 6 treasure tokens I could potentially win that turn.

Cast Weird Harvest where X = 3. Grab Ancestral Statue , Walking Ballista , and Cloud of Faeries . Use the last token to cast the Faeries, untap two lands, cast two of the 2 CMC creatures to get Animar up to 4 counters, then win with Statue and Ballista.

Granted, with no protection available in hand I'm sure that something in that chain would have eaten a counter or removal spell, but it's fun to speculate on the potentials of new cards.

August 24, 2019 4:06 a.m.

JMCraig says... #6

Yeah, I've had a few great games with it already. early on, around turns 3-4, he can easily make 3-4 mana which is enough to cast a few extra cheap setup/tutor creatures. he effectively puts us a turn ahead, and if we keep an opening hand for a tutor/big draw spell like we should, it'll give us a solid chance of winning that turn or the next. Like you say, he also synergizes nicely with our multi-tutors, since they consume a lot of mana in one shot.

Obviously he gives us no card advantage, so hes not an ideal topdeck later in the game when we have a developed board, but our opponents usually have even more artifacts/enchants by then, so he potentially makes a lot more mana. Last week I used Treasures to recast Animar at 11-mana, which hurt a lot, but got me back in that game after some bad beats.

Only downside i've seen so far is that there are a handful of decks that just play around Dockside completely. I was doing a few 1-v-1 games against Gitrog recently and I think i got maybe one treasure off a Sol ring over several games. not a particularly representative test of the card, but something to bear in mind i guess.

The little guy has been a fantastic addition to our deck! I'm happy to see WotC push new and interesting roles for W and R in Commander, especially if that means Animar gets to add a couple more spicy new red creatures!

August 25, 2019 1:09 a.m.

SaberTech says... #7

What would you say the risk/benefit ratio is for Collector Ouphe now? It shuts down your Spellskite , moxes, and treasure tokens from Dockside Extortionist . Considering that the Extortionist and its treasure tokens are now part of the Kiri-Onna lines, does that make the Ouphe more of a potential hindrance to the deck? Is it still worth the risk to shut down other players' artifacts?

August 25, 2019 4:19 a.m.

JMCraig says... #8

It's still meta-dependent, but a little more risky now. I probably wouldn't play it in the main deck unless there's a real threat in the meta that demands it; just messing with opposing artifact ramp isn't worth it, but if there are a lot of Aetherflux, Scepter, Bomberman or Future+Top decks, then it definitely should be in the deck.

More importantly, it's still not particularly hard to play around the anti-synergy. Either hold the Ouphe back until its absolutely needed, or bounce/Cratermaker/Neoform/Eldritch it when you need to go off. And fwiw, the Kiri line is still not one of our more common wincons in my experience, and the Neo one starts from the same place so its easy to "fork" as needed.

Basically, I still like him for the main since I play against a Scepter, a Sydri and an Urza guy, but I could totally see cutting him if the meta was full of Selvala or Vig or something. The anti-synergy has been pretty trivial for me.

August 26, 2019 2:11 p.m.

I would just want to know your rationale in not running Purphoros in the deck. He seems valuable due to bypassing Ouphe with Ancestral statue, making every creature play painful post-boardwipe and the firebreathing ability actually being a good parity breaker in certain boardstates.

August 28, 2019 3:28 a.m.

JMCraig says... #10

As a 4-CMC Red creature, Purph is an awkward early draw, which is my main issue. Further, his damage ability is pretty negligible since it can't be pointed at creatures or walkers, and most opponent's won't mind a few pings over the course of the game. The fire-breathing is something I never used when i ran Purph (~2-3 years), and i can't really imagine a scenario in which I'd want to use it, since its expensive and Animar himself is almost always the biggest creature on board.

By contrast, Ballista is obviously better. it can be cast early and bounced by statue later, can ping creatures for emergency removal, is free to cast (making Harvest lines easier) and is easier to tutor. Basically an upgrade on every level. Beast Whisperer also allows us an effective secondary wincon with Statue, since we can dig to Ballista.

So I see Purph as the third best wincon to pair with Statue. I personally never needed that many, so it's not in my list. Using only Ballista is also not really a conflict with Ouphe, since we can bounce the Ouphe with Statue and then use Ballista. Basically, run Purph if your meta requires a backup outlet. Maybe Ballista is getting Extract-ed, maybe you have Null Rod/Ouphe across the table, maybe it's even getting Revoker-ed. It's never been too much of an issue for me, but it's something to consider!

August 28, 2019 4:54 p.m.

I also would just like to ask since I currently run a Caustic Catterpillar as well, but what would be your other way of dealing with a Rhystic Study as you storm of with Statue or Kiri? Even with the person tapped out, access to Force or Pact would be able to stop the loop.

Tldr: Is one Artifact Enchantment hate card good enough?

August 29, 2019 4:27 a.m.

JMCraig says... #12

If Rhystic is big in your meta (it isn't in mine) then definitely dedicate another slot or two to removal. I'm currently using Caterpillar and Cratermaker to remove hate pieces, but since the latter can't hit Rhystic, I'd remove it and give another few slots to cheap cards like Ainok Survivalist, Rec Sage etc.

As for bigger creatures, Acidic Slime is just plan bad, but I have a soft spot for Brutalizer Exarch since he can tutor Statue. Still, Bane is obviously the best big hate card here, and I'd strongly suggest you sleeve one up. The midrangey, permanent-heavy decks that play Rhystic will likely give you a lot more good targets as well!

For noncreatures, I'd be tempted to try Force of Vigor since it's often free, or Nature's Claim since it can be found by Spellseeker, but the creature-based versions are almost always better since we can tutor them up on demand (it's not an effect we want to draw every turn).

If you're looking for a rough change list, assuming you encounter Rhystic or other problematic non-artifact storm hate a couple times per night:

Cut the least relevant 2-3 of:

  • Cratermaker - Kills Trinisphere, Orbs, but not Rhystic.
  • Gilded Drake - Deals with tricky commanders in the same way Song of the Dryads does.
  • Collector Ouphe - Neutralizes Artifact combos, ramp really well.
  • Revoker - Deals with a handful of Commanders/wincons/engines for free.
  • ScOoze - deals with some GY stuff, but its notably poor against Gitrog and some Hulk combos. Prob the weakest on this list.

Add, in this order

  • Rec Sage - Super cheap, only downside is that it can't get Torpor Orb.
  • Ainok - Occasional free cast is excellent, and can hit Torpor Orb.
  • Bane - This thing is a nuclear bomb, but I dislike that it only works well when you're already doing well enough to cast a 6CMC guy. I prefer my removal to be cheap enough to cast in an emergency. Still, it's uniquely powerful if you have multiple Stax/Prison/Pillowfort decks in the game each of which is making your life harder, so definitely consider it depending on your meta.
  • Brutalizer - You might be pleasant surprised. I was.
  • Basically any non-creature Disenchant effect - Obvi the two i mentioned above are preferable, but I'd strongly suggest sticking to creatures.
  • Acidic Slime - passsss.
August 30, 2019 7:33 p.m.

SaberTech says... #13

Wow. Here's hoping that the new Deafening Silence enchantment becomes a cEDH meta staple because Animar just laughs all the way to the bank when that card is out.

September 12, 2019 5:28 p.m.

JMCraig says... #14

I was thinking the same thing! Too bad we cant run it in the deck, but it's another reason we like playing at tables with anti-spellslinger tech. If only the effect was printed on a 2CMC green creature!

September 12, 2019 7:46 p.m.

SaberTech says... #15

Derevi Stax and Blood Pod would probably be interested in playing it, but I'm not sure what other decks would. Maybe those Tymna and Kraum decks? I'm not sure how heavy those decks go into the stax strategy.

September 12, 2019 8:27 p.m.

JMCraig says... #16

Yeah, oldschool hard Stax decks aren't as common these days. but any 4c-pod stax deck will prob want it, and I saw a few Derevi guys on Reddit who were hyped for it, as you say. If anyone's still playing Arbiter/Brago stax it could be a dece option, same for maybe Bruna and Uril, but we're pretty deep into jank at that point.

Still, a few good decks will get better with this card, and our match-ups against the field will improve as a result!

September 13, 2019 12:03 a.m.

SaberTech says... #17

Finally! A new card that is potentially viable in Animar. Overwhelmed Apprentice is just one blue mana to let us scry 2 and mill each opponent for 2 cards. It can mill out opponents as part of a Kiri-Onna loop. Animar would much prefer to draw than scry, but 1 CMC utility creatures are valuable to get counters started on Animar and it doubles as a potential win con if something like Stony Silence has shut down Ballista.

September 16, 2019 9:24 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #18

Is Gilded Goose a possible consideration? Seems like a really bad dork, but getting Animar on turn 2 is really important, so...

September 16, 2019 9:35 p.m.

JMCraig says... #19

Oof, it's pretty darn terrible tho. We already have access to Exploration or Burgeoning if we really wanted another way to get Animar out Turn 2, and those are good cards (despite our deck not quite running enough lands to use them consistently). Hell, I'd even rather slot in Skirk Prospector since it can at least be a mana-neutral creature cast later on. Basically, this guy is a neat design, but we don't need that effect badly enough to run such a narrow card.

In fact, I'm kinda disappointed with spoilers for this set so far. My casual artifact and enchantress decks got a few new toys, but Animar is relatively underserved here, especially compared to the last couple releases (Horizon lands, Dockside, Shared Summons, etc). Anyone see anything good for Animar in the Eldraine?

September 17, 2019 1:44 a.m.

SaberTech says... #20

Overwhelmed Apprentice is the only thing that I think is potentially viable thus far.

September 17, 2019 2:02 a.m.

JMCraig says... #21

yeah, Apprentice could see play if the deck wanted to add a few more cantrips/filtering ETBs. Aside from some pretty niche cases, Apprentice is just a cheaper Omenspeaker, which is neat, but Champ of Wits is prob a bit better, and Skyscanner is worth a look too. Finger's crossed for something interesting still!

September 17, 2019 5:22 p.m.

SaberTech says... #22

The Apprentice doubles as an alternate win-con with a Kiri loop by milling out opponents. It's a reasonable second option if Ballista has been shut down somehow, and it can be tutored for with Recruiter.

September 17, 2019 9:56 p.m.

JMCraig says... #23

Oh, hadn't though about that. thats actually pretty rad. Might be worth a slot in metas with a lot of Extract effects, since its WAY better than something like Riftsweeper in most games. Good call.

September 18, 2019 7:44 p.m.

SaberTech says... #24

Admittedly, trying to win through milling is probably risky in cEDH because of decks that could potentially flash in a Laboratory Maniac or set themselves up by using the flashback on Memory's Journey during their upkeep.

Still, having the option of milling opponents out tacked on to a moderately serviceable 1 CMC creature is at least worth considering. It wouldn't be my first choice, but in the context of what the new set is giving us it's at least something.

September 19, 2019 12:02 a.m.

Shiroi87 says... #25

Hello JMCraig!, what do you think about the new merfolk Sage of the falls? It is tutorable by Recruiter.

September 19, 2019 12:55 p.m.

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