Sabertech, how does Ashes of the Abhorrent affect a meta in which Grafdigger's Cage is already played?

Saber- Yeah, not too much actually playable Animar tech in Ixalan so far. All the +1/+1 merfolk had me hopeful for a Bond Beetle functional reprint, but no luck. Strmtamer may actually be good, since its the first really useful Cursecatcher effect for the deck, but it's not too much of a game changer.

Ferocidan def hoses our wincons, but there's no real chance of it being a mainstream threat. The only good red hatebear deck is Blood Pod, and they already use Hushwing if they really want to fuck with us, so this guy wont tip the scales too much. In fact, I like playing in Blood Pod games because the storm decks have it WAY worse than Animar!

Ashes may be useful tech to disrupt our main opponents, joining the likes of Rest in Peace and Grafdigger's, but we'll see. I'm sure itll see play somewhere, and every table where it makes it an appearance is a good one for us.

Here's hoping for some great new stuff in the next set! this really feels like a good block for us; lots of cheap feisty creatures. fingers crossed!

Frank- i think the idea is redundancy of hate effects for popular non-Animar combos is never a bad thing for us. Agreed there!

@ Frank_Glascock

Where Ashes of the Abhorrent differs from Rest in Peace and Grafdigger's Cage is that it can go into reanimator decks like Boonweaver, while the other two can't. It doesn't actually stop you from reanimating creatures with cards cast from hand like Reanimate or creatures like Karmic Guide, but it can still mess with the strategies that I listed in my last post. It's not as absolute an answer to graveyard tricks as Rest in Peace would be, but it is a card that can fit into decks that wouldn't have been able to run the other two options.

So you're right, beyond running it for some extra redundancy, a lot of decks that could run it may not bother to. However, now there are more types of decks that have access to a card that puts a speed bump in front of some of the faster decks, which is all good for Animar.

Have you thought of adding Growing Rites of Itlimoc, JMCraig?

Nope, I dont like Growing Rites for the deck.

First off, Animar is one of the best decks to hit a creature with the Impulse effect and to trrigger a flip in the first EOT, so the card "works" here, no doubt. The issue is that we dont need it.

it's a 3 CMC enchant so it comes down after Animar and likely uses up that whole turn. Then you get a decent filtering ability, and if you're ahead on board, a better Cradle. But honestly, the ramp is pretty unnecessary considering that once it flips youll likely have enough counters on Animar that mana isnt your limiting factor. We run real Cradle but even that is hardly an essential part of the deck.

I would say Rites fits into a big category of spells that seem cool but are counter productive: other stuff to do once Animar is past 4 counters. At that point, winning is your only real goal, not ramp, not big beaters or board control, just slamming statue and going for the win. All these cards should be replaced by either tutors/draw, or good ways to get Animar up to 4, like 1 CMC dorks or Raven Familiar-like cards.

In this light, the Impulse part of Rites is the best part, and for far less mana, Id rather play Foul Emissary.

Now, should you test it? Maybe, if you want. Might even be good in more casual pods or more midrangey builds. It doesnt fit in this all-in storm build tho.

Is it a good budget Cradle? No, dont buy a budget cradle. the money/mana is better spent elsewhere, since cradle isnt a core part of the deck. esp with the recent spikes, its one of the least noticeable and most frugal budget cuts.

I use this deck a lot and really like it so I'll take your advice. Thanks!

Thanks for the kind words! Enjoy it!

I saw your list no longer has Hoverguard Sweepers in it. Any reason for the removal?

The more I played the deck against better opponents, the less relevant it became. In fast combo matchups it never came out early enough, and in stax/control matchups it was too greedy to pull off without getting hampered by various taxes and other interaction.

In general, it was just plain better to tutor up Statue ASAP and force that line through. We have more than enough recursion and protection to make the combo work in most games, so having a fallback plan that was actually harder to pull off became less valuable than just reinforcing our main plan.

My cuts were:

hoverguard

Rattleclaw (just plain janky, and ramp is less relevant after casting Animar)

and I added two good interaction effects each attached to my favorite thing, 1-CMC creatures:

Caustic Caterpillar

Siren Stormtamer

Thanks for the update. Caustic Caterpillar made an appearance in Laboratory Maniac's Breakfast Hulk list. Would playing Siren Stormtamer before you cast Animar be an option?

Caterpillar is a great little guy. He found a home here when two different guys in my meta started playing Dramatic+Scepter and Fishbowl. The little wormy eats that stuff for breakfast, and at worst, he's a cheap and easy counter for animar.

Stormtamer is a plausible play before Animar comes down, but generally you'll wait until he's on board for a few reasons:

• it sets you back a turn. this is the main thing
• Getting the counter for 1CMC (as opposed to casting a 2CMC guy for full price) is a a convenient way to start the chain
• He cant protect Animar on the stack, only on board, which limits the value of playing him first
• casting him before Animar means he'll have nothing to protect on turn 2, even if you leave up the U, which may be hard with only two lands down
• holding up the U and casting Animar in the same turn is even slower.

So yeah, if you're being extra cautious its an option, but generally its always better to cast Animar turn 2. the turn after you cast him is your most flexible, since that's when you'll tutor up either the win or some form of protection/interaction.

What multiplayer lines do you look for with Animar, then, now that you have removed Hoverguard Sweepers? I definitely like the inclusion of Siren Stormtamer, but I'm still holding on to the Sweepers line. It works really well for finishing off the table when you find Imperial Recruiter, then can end the game. But if there was another good line other than getting Purphoros, God of the Forge and Ancestral Statue, then I'd probably remove Hoverguard, too, since it is very mana intensive.

Ballista really added a lot to the deck. He's your other finisher besides Purph. He has a few neat benefits:

• he can come down after statue and not need subsequent casts
• you can retain priority on cast and activate the ability as much as you like, rather than proceeding entirely at sorcery speed
• he's colorless, so Bloodmoon effects are irrelevant
• he can be tutored by Fabricate and Trinket Mage
• In a pinch, he can be very good removal for pesky hatebears or labmans

So while youre definitely still relying on Statue/Earthcraft/Cloudstone for your infinite casts, you get a much more resilient, flexible finisher. That ended up being more then enough incentive to cut the Hoverguard line for me.

Hey @JMCraig, I love this list! I am a die hard cEDH Animar player and I really like the inclusions in your deck. I was wondering if maybe you would take a look at my list and see what you think of it? I also wanted to talk a bit about the creature variances between our decks because I think your creatures are a bit better than mine.

My Creature differences:-Wirewood Symbiote(i read the notes and totally agree he needs other working pieces, so he is probably out)-Phantasmal Image-Rattleclaw Mystic-Sakura-Tribe Elder-Reclamation Sage-Venser,Shaper Savant(going to be swapped with Siren soon)-Slithermuse-Acidic Slime-Duplicant

I was also on the fence on a couple of cards in your list or a lack of certain cards.-Is Brutalizer Exarch super good? He has always seemed sub par from my perspective.-I have yet to test with him but is Vizier of the Menagerie very potent in Animar?-I also wanted to know a bit about why sylvan tutor over a GSZ and I do not see you running Chord of Calling either, so I was just curious.

Out of all of the lists I have looked up in search of a solid Animar deck, I think yours is the best I have seen!! I think mine is not as good as this list and would love some insight as to how I can better my deck. Thank you in advance!

Here is my list Animar Combo

Hey man, glad you like the deck! I've been tweaking and tuning for a long time now and I really like how its running.

• Wirewood Symbiote: like you said, not much synergy in the list. not much payoff either.
• Phantasmal Image: why play clones? People always do in animar, but the only one that's really solid is Phyrexian, since he's free. I dont like relying on having good cards on board just to make a mediocre card useful; feels shitty when you're behind.
• Rattleclaw Mystic: not a bad card, just a little too finicky. plus, extra ramp after casting Animar is just plain overkill. Rishkar fills this role WAY better in my opinion.
• Sakura-Tribe Elder: Slow ramp, only useful post Animar. this guy isn't like Wood elves who can be effectively free by fetching an untapped land, and you have no real synergies that abuse sac effects. This guy is effectively a dead card on cast most of the time, and we have better ramp options.
• Reclamation Sage: I dig this guy, and some number of these effects are necessary. BUT i set up my suite of these to all get around Torp orb/Gryff, which means im running Caustic Caterpillar and Ainok, but not Rec. Meta call, basically, but i'd strongly recommend this setup just to be safe. RUnning a third on on top of your bigger removal cards is pretty excessive (and Manglehorn worke well if you need to).
• Venser, Shaper Savant: slow and off-axis. Def cut.
• Slithermuse: Love this guy. bit too conditional for me most of the time, but he's perennially on my short list.
• Acidic Slime: Here's where Brutalizer comes in. Expensive removal is bad unless you get a bonus (like Ulamog) and this guy does exactly what you want him to once you hit 4 counters: either get statue or clear the way. It was a great upgrade in this slot, so id try it out.
• Duplicant: creature removal isnt a main priority for us, and when it is we have Drake or Ulamog. Too expensive for what it does, basically. At 4+ counters we're looking to win not play midrange-control magic.
• Viz: this little dude is actually pretty great. I though i'd be disappointed with his CMC but he does a good job on turns when you're running out of gas, and synergizes with out topdeck tutors sometimes. Def worth a test.
• Zenith: doesnt get you Statue, or any of your card advantage guys. Pretty much just a ramp accelerator, given the limitation to green guys. I try it out every now and then, but its always mediocre.
• Chord: same as Zenith in that you don't get the Counter for Animar and have to pay full price, but better bc you can fetch all creatures. Still, its a huge tempo killer and the instant speed benefit isnt really relevant in a deck that plays entirely in the mainphase. Eldritch Evo replaced this in my list.

I think this mostly covers it! I'll have a look at your list too.

What are your thoughts on the new Brainstorm Merfolk from RIX?

I think it is worth testing in either Raven Familiar orSea Gate Oracle

I mean, costing 4 is rough. If i'm on 3 counters im hoping to wrap up the game fast, not spam value. I like that dig though, so it could be a solid inclusion to help us dig for a win/tutor.

Basically, my test for high-CMC cards is "does this beat just tutoring with Chord/GSZ??". This is usually a little cheaper but a lot less effective, so i'm on the fence. Like i said tho, def something to try out.

I was looking at the two-mana red daredevil guy that lets you exile an instant or sorcery from an opponent's graveyard and potentially cast it. I've been hesitant because it is situational value, but the ability to steal a good black tutor from an opponent or grab a counterspell on the turn you want to combo is appealing.

Yes! shes the one im most excited to play also. def a situational card, but in a strong meta with a lot of good decks at the table she'll have a pretty acceptable floor and an incredible ceiling. i'd love to snag something like ad nauseam, but even just vamp, force or brainstorm would be worth it.

JMCraig, I noticed that you have only four basics and yet are running Earthcraft. I know the fetches makes it a lot easier to "turn on" Earthcraft. Have you had issues with this being a dead card more than 25% of the time?

JMCraig, I missed the addition of Mental Misstep. How it is that working? I was surprised to see it make your list. What cards do you most counter with it?

My meta's been getting really combo-ey. I use it to counter tutors (even Blood Pod is running a bunch of green ones) and opposing countermagic mostly, but there are some other fantastic targets like like Swords and Stifle that make it worthwhile. 0-mana defensive counterspells have always been good for the deck, but i tended to dismiss Misstep as too narrow. These days it feels unavoidable!

I was thinking that Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile would be useless on Animar. I guess the play is for your opponents to use those spells to target Ancestral Statue.

Did you see my question involving this deck only playing four basics and Earthcraft?

I'm not a huge fan of counterspells in Animar, but if I had to play them at a competitive table then Mental Misstep would be my first pick. I used to play both Force of Will and Pact of Negation, but I rarely had an extra blue card in hand to pitch to Will so it was often a dead draw. Pact got removed because I rarely drew it, it was situational when I did get it, and in the end I just preferred having another creature that I could tutor for.

Granted, combo decks have gotten a lot faster since I made those changes. @JMCraig Has the competitive meta reached the point where it's difficult for Animar to compete without having access to counterspells?

My perception of Animar is that it has the best chance in games where there is at least one dedicated STAX deck at the table because Animar's game plan tends to work around the more common stax effects. The cards that would really bother Animar, like Hushwing Gryff, aren't as attractive to tutor for when there are two other spell-based combo decks at the table. When I pilot, I try to take advantage of any stax effects on the board and hedge my bets on the fact that about 50% of the cheap counterspells that decks run usually can't target Animar's combo creatures. It also helps that Animar's combo lines can be a little difficult to predict, so it's easy to bait out counters or removal with a more obvious line before pivoting to another one.