Very good points. In particular, I also hope to see more viable combo lines open up for Animar going forward. As it is, even classic lines like Earthcraft, Kiki/Pod and Recruiter/Hoverguard can seem a little slow. Every one requires more pieces and more time to set up then just bashing out Statue asap. Hell, I only like Cloudstone for the 1/20 games where I need to generate a ton of value to unclog a stalled board. Here's hoping DOM or another upcoming set gives us some spicy new stuff!

So if you want to build the deck for maximum consistency and speed, focus on Statue. Pretty much every Animar player I know has come to about the same conclusion. BUT you don't have to go that route! If your meta or your playstyle calls for more midrangey threats, then by all means, add stuff like Ruric Thar, Winnower, Sphinx etc. Just bear in mind that every play and deckslot you dedicate to something other than casting Statue fast is possibly reducing your winrate. If that's what matters most to you, I stongly suggest looking into the suggestions made by Sabre, AlarmedNine, Frank and others on this thread.

I have converted to JMCraig's list. It is the best cedh version. I do not think Animar is in the top 1/3 of the tier 1.5 decks.

yeah, having a major dependency on the commander is a real hurdle for the deck. no amount of tuning ever fully eliminates it, and it keeps us from being a true t1 deck. that said, i think a well-tuned animar deck can easily be t2, and a good pilot can put up decent results at any table.

Animar does get some niche advantages in metas where Stax decks are prominent though. Speaking of which: Do you think the new Urzatron/Storm hoser artifact will become a common inclusion in cEDH Stax decks? It not only messes with Storm spell chains, but it requires Doomsday Decks to have a lot more mana to combo out, shuts down Food Chain, and can even turn off DramaticScepter depending on how many mana rocks they have on the field.

Funny thing though, Animar barely notices it. Unfortunately, FlashHulk can also play around it fairly well, but we can't have everything I suppose.

I've tuned things a little more, excited to see how it plays out this weekend.

In - OutHardened Scales - Counterspell

Den Protector - Arcane Denial

Primordial Sage - Wandered

Soul of the Harvest - Concencrated Sphinx

Bond Beetle - Counterflux

Rishkar, Peema Renegade - Joiner Adept

The next subs will most likely be Phantasmal Image & Stunt Double.

I'm strongly considering reducing the win con lines, it's a hard decision but I'll definitely test it with the meta.

Part of me focused more on the counter magic to stop the other combo players but I've come to realize, that's not Animar's role in the meta.

Truly appreciate the input.

Regarding the new stax spell: man, i hope so! Animar plays right through it, so i'd be happy of every deck that has a home for it slots it in. They prob wont rush it out aganst us, but if the table that night is Stax, Storm, Storm, Animar, We may do very well.

Regarding Animar edits: yeah, man, good stuff! I'll be you really love the new stuff.

Are you guys sure that Damping Sphere won't strongly impact lines of play in Animar? It adds 1 extra mana for each spell cast before it in the turn, so explosive turns with several casts will certainly be affected. We can't just play Statue with Animar at 4 counters if we casted two other things earlier, we need 7 counters at that point. Not to mention free countermagic also being affected by the Sphere. I think it's going to have a huge impact personally.

Sorry my mistake, a free Statue cast with 2 prior spells would require 6 counters on Animar as the first one is free, then the 2nd is +1, 3rd is +2, etc. Still impactful however IMO.

It'll def be a little sketchy for our first casts, but the combo itself is unaffected once it gets going; that's the main thing. I'm confident that it'll be a lot easier for me to cook up an extra counter or two than for, say, a storm or DDay deck to win through sphere! like a lot of stax effects (Thalia, Null Rodd, etc), Animar is certainly affected, but substantially less so than a lot of decks, particularly other storm decks. On balance, I think the damage done to other decks is enough to make it a net benefit to us in most scenerios.

The Sphere would probably set Animar back by about one turn. It's true that you probably won't be able to curve out in one turn if you are starting with Animar at 0 counters, but if you get to untap on a turn where Animar has 2-3 counters on him then that should be fine. Animar's advantage under Sphere is that Animar's ability basically negates the incremental tax the Sphere imposes. So while other decks are struggling to take the initiative due to their spell-per-turn ratio getting cut, Animar basically gets to say "Ok, maybe I have to play fair with my spells' mana costs for one turn." After that, it should be clear sailing due to the low cost of Animar's creatures. The only issue that might come up is if you are trying to top-end your turn with a Huge Walking Ballista or Eldrazi, which may require you to wait another turn if you haven't managed to build up enough net mana value over the course of your turn. If you do have to wait, you would probably still be able to kill one of your opponents with just commander damage. If everyone is tapped out you might even just get a chance to kill the player that owns the Sphere and then you can finish comboing off.

Hardened Scales really shows its value when Animar is having to play through the Sphere.

JMCraig, I would rate Animar as a 1.5 deck as opposed to a 2. You cited the advantage Animar has against stax. Consider also the fact that decks like Breakfast Hulk avoid most two mana counterspells. This means that half of their stuff doesn't stop creatures (ex Mental Misstep, Dispel, Swan Song, Flusterstorm, and Spell Pierce).

You recently mentioned cutting Earthcraft and possibly Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. Did you settle on their replacements?

I'm still testing out some big changes! Here's my current test build:

cut: Earthcraft+RishkarAdd: GSZ+Sylvan Safekeeper.

cheap green hate creatures keep getting better and kore meta-relevant, so im liking Zenith a lot more. It may stil seem like a way to fetch over-costed mana dorks, but you get some great targets like Arbor (t2 Animar enabler), Sylvan (protection), ScOoze (everyone's doing GY stuff now) and of course 3-mana Fuana Shaman still wins games if you don't need any interaction. It's been pretty good so far.

Cutting earthcraft has given me more room to tinker with lands, and I'm also getting to try out a lot of old gold lands that didnt work before:

Tainted citadel: shouldve been in already. we never pay life outside fetching and Library

Thran Quarry: fewer decks seem to play wraths now that more are using dorks.

Exotic ORchard: Evroyne's on green now!!

Gemstone Cav: been meaning to test this. it's a little rough bc the downside of making colorless mana is really bad for us, but it's amazing when it goes off. im on the fence.

To make room, i'll prob cut some combination of the painlands and a few basics. still figuring it out.

Regarding Animar's tier: I think the disagreement is mostly just a matter of definitions, since I'm not a fan of half tiers, especially in multiplayer but I do see your point. We have a strong, consistent and resilient plan-A, and at the moment we're positioned pretty well against the meta at large (though EDH is much more local, and has a lot more variance overall). I kinda see Animar like Modern Bogles: We'll play right through a lot of decks, but there's one inherent flaw in our gameplan that renders certain games almost unwinnable. We can avoid those games with good deck tuning and play out of the hole if we have time, but a savvy opponent will find away to tech against us. That's how i define tier 2: a really strong linear, proactive deck with an easily exploitable inherent flaw. By contrast, tier 1 decks are a lot more redundant and flexible, like Zur who can play control at a combo table and combo at a midrange table, or Affinity, that can go wide or tall. Even more linear decks can be tier 1 if they have so many layered combo lines that they can adapt to the specific game. Basically Animar is always gonna be really good Statue-casting deck, but a true tier 1 deck like sans-red Hulk can do Flash, Druid, Bomberman etc depedning on the meta or even the gamestate on any given night. That's enough of a qualitative distinction for me.

Hey Craig, I was in the same boat on Earth Craft, too many times it felt out of place due to the lack of basic lands. I've recently added it back, will test more on my end.

I'm running both Earthcraft & Aluren, might end up cutting both - not sure yet. I can't decide if I want to keep those Win Con lines available.

GSZ - love this card, cannot tell you how many times it's helped me get out of a sticky situation.Thran Quarry & Exotic Orchard - Must add, I've personally had them on the list since day 1.

Aluren always seemed too high on the curve for me. by the time I have 4 mana I want to be casting 2-3 creatures per turn and looking for statue, not making it even easier to cast cheap creatures. honestly, the latter is just not something animar ever has issue with.

Zenith has been excluded for the longest time bc more often than not the only available targets are more manadorks, which are either redundant or not something i want to pay full CMC for. Basically, it doent fit well into any existing combo lines. the reason i'm liking it more now is bc the hate cards are more relevant and more powerful than before. even if GSZ ends up being a toolboxy answer card not a combo enabler it may still have a real home in the deck.

Thran: is the bad old days of UB storm being the best deck, wraths were a lot more common than they are now that everyone's playing 6+ dorks in their decks. there a lot fewer gamestates where an opponent wants to fire off a wrath, meaning the chance of Quarry killing itself and hurting your ability to rebuild are a lot lower.

Exotic: similarly, a lot more decks are running green now that hulk and partners make it trivially easy to do so. previously i had excluded it bc it was worthless in a meta of UBx storm and UW stax and shit. I think it's chances of being relevant on turn 1, when it really matters, are a lot better now.

Hey Craig,

Played 4 player pod competitive 2 days ago, made some last minute modifications to play something closer to what you have but blended with my deck.

Drew into an awesome hand with this combo:

Temur Sabertooth + Cloud of Faeries + Wild Growth (this was added from your recommendation)

Had Fierce Empath as well, tutored for Soul of the Harvest for the win.

I'd strongly consider adding Temur Sabertooth to your build. You've got 2 pieces of the puzzle already between Peregrine Drake & Cloud of Faeries.

Personally, I'd drop Ainok Survivalist

Sabretooth can do a lot of cool stuff, for sure. Having a bounce outlet on hand that can also make stuff indestructible is definitely powerful. In my testing though it's been a little situational and overcosted. I'll def keep trying it out though.

I'm not to keen on cutting Survivalist. This is due to it being our best out to silver bullet such as Cursed Totem and Torpor Orb

I am still warming to GSZ. Vizier of the Menagerie is back in my list as well as adding Siren Stormtamer. With the uprise in Gilded Drakes, spellskite needed some help

Def keeping Ainok; that little guy is a lifesaver at best, and dece value at worst.

Vizier and sotrmtamer have both proven themselves for sure. mildly situational, but very solid for what the do.

GSZ is def a bit finicky, but i'm liking it in my testing.

Oh btw, how do you feel about Ulvenwald tracker with GSZ in the deck? it ends up being decent cheap creature removal at effectively 1 CMC, a lot like Caterpillar. I really like situational cards that can "turn on" or just be 1-drops in the deck.

What problem are you hoping Ulvenwald Tracker will solve? The Tracker is slow, so it's not a great answer to something like Hermit Druid, but I guess that if you are being locked down by Hushwing Gryff then having an answer, even a slow one, is better than nothing.

Yeah that was the plan. It's not a major issue, but there are times when the Bloodpod guy has a bear locking me down that I need to eliminate. Hushwing and Mindcensor are a major issue. Mainly tho I just really like spicy 1 CMC creatures. Ulvenwald is something to consider depending on how the meta shapes up.

What types of combos can you pull off with a recruiter that would be better for multiplayer if there are any I have been having issues visioning a line similar to the 1v1 that would end with tutoring an additional card to try to end the game with like newlamog. I was just wondering how you could go about fitting a second way around the typical ancestral/curio line that was somewhat interesting as a second line. Maybe this just is not necessary but I was just wondering what your thoughts on it were, thanks!

So the typical set of wincons is:

• Statue+enabler
• Cloudstone+2X colorless guys
• Earthcraft+island+Bouncer (though i'm cutting this one)

Some lists like an additional "Big" combo line:

• Kiki+enabler
• Recruiter chain (either using Hoverguard or Kiri-Onna)

So the kiri line is pretty janky, but the Hoverguard one is neat. it was developed by Wolfman29 on reddit and can be found in the primer above and written up nicely in BubBun's list. Works like this, basically:

1. Cast recruiter for Phyrexian Metamorph
2. Cast metamorph as recruiter for Fierce empath
3. Cast Empath for Hoverguard Sweepers
4. Cast Sweepers picking up Recruiter and itself
5. Cast Recruiter for Peregrine Drake
6. Cast Drake to untap
7. Scoop Drake with Hoverguard as many times as you want to make infinite mana
8. Scoop other tutors with Hoverguard
9. Tutor and cast whatever you want!

This line is obviously powerful, but it needs 5 lands in play, none of which can be too conditional. Plus you need Animar out at 3 counters and no interaction from your opponents. Needless to say it works but its waaaay to finicky. I think i only ever one a handful of games with it over several years and eventually had to cut Guard as the deck became more streamlined.

Basically I feel the same way about the big recruiter line as i do about Earthcraft, Hulk, Kiki and any of the other alternate wins: too much work and too many dead deck slots. The deck already has a miraculously easy and safe wincon in Statue, and everything we do should be accelerating and protecting that line, bc holy shit its good.

Feel free to tinker around obviously, but i'm actually quite please with my current suite of wincons.

How do you feel about recruiter without a combo then I mean it is competitive but 50 dollars for a simple 3 mana tutor on a creature isn't bad by any means I would say its great but is it really worth it when I could just add in either another tutor or more protection for the combo lines. I have found usually the issue I run into is when I run out of protection I usually just get stalled out in the game because recasting animar and getting the counters up to combo range can be a challenge the later the game goes. Any recommendations for that and thanks for the above comment it was helpful I want to try out the hoverguards lines online a bit I am curious how this works.