And I'll Pay a Red | Only 5 Red Spells! *PRIMER*
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 147 | 78 COMMENTS | 21407 VIEWS | IN 69 FOLDERS
Hey I apologize for forgetting the link. I left it as a comment on the video.
I definitely understand your reasoning on not including some of my suggestions. It's the kind of deck that plays differently for everyone depending on your style so that changes your tech choices. That's part of why I like the deck so much.
June 29, 2018 10:27 p.m.
Golem Guardian seems a bit misplaced here, since he is not an artifact land when he is flipped.
Try switching it with Strionic Resonator. You activate an artifact, say Gonti's Aether Heart, to get an extra turn. It triggers Kurkesh's Ability. You use the Resonator to copy the triggered ability, then copy the Resonator ability with Kurkesh, since the Resonator has an activated ability. So basicly you now have two more Kurkesh triggers, you pay three red mana, and now you got 4 extra turns. Generally, you pay six mana to copy the ability three times instead of paying one mana to copy it once. Your deck creates insane amounts of mana, so you don't really care about that, and it's just crazy value.
July 4, 2018 7:59 a.m.
Golden Guardian Flip is here despite it not being an artifact land because 2 mana lands are really valuable to Kurkesh, even if they have hoops attached to a degree. For the moment, I'm happy with it and it hasn't caused any issues.
I've been on the fence about Strionic Resonator since I first built the deck. It has its very obvious merits that are certainly hard to ignore, but there are a number of factors I consider when looking at cards to put in and what cards are cut for them. A big factor is category--what kind of niche the card fulfills and how many other cards of the same category already exist, and/or need to be present to be optimal. It fills a similar niche to Rings of Brighthearth and, naturally, Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, and even the Rings I hardly use because Kurkesh's value is so outrageous.
Furthermore, my deck may generate lots of mana, but the value comes from spending that mana over multiple artifacts working as an engine to achieve the primary directive. Spending six whole mana to do one thing three times is really powerful depending on the thing, but for a lot of the best artifacts, it's not worth it. One mana for one copy is better than six for three if that leaves me five mana to use to make another copy of each of five other artifacts that, when used together, accomplish more.
But, you can't deny that if you do have more mana than you need, it does produce results. So I'm really torn. I worry it's gonna be the same deal as with Scrap Mastery, and I'll only ever get it when it's useless, or when I would absolutely need it I won't have it.
So I'm not going to add it, but I'm not going to say I don't want it, either. I'll put it in the maybeboard--as I evidently forgot to put it there--for those who are looking into their own takes on the deck to consider, but for the way I play the deck and the level I need it to perform and be optimal, I worry it's going to be inconsistent in its value.
July 4, 2018 10:47 p.m.
Basalt monolith goes infinite with your commander, which then should allow for you to find the pieces for an infinite red combo.
July 31, 2018 3:09 p.m.
Basalt Monolith does not go infinite with Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient. He can't copy mana abilities, and the monolith doesn't produce red mana so it would require outside mana sources for the untap ability to be copied.
It goes infinite with Rings of Brighthearth, but ive already expressed why I've excluded it anyway.
July 31, 2018 6:01 p.m.
The monolith does work with Kurkesh and Mycosynth Lattice.
August 1, 2018 4:11 a.m.
I love the deck, and I apologize if this has been suggested before, but why no Darksteel Citadel or Great Furnace? They both interact well with Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant especially during mid to late game when you have a surplus of lands and mana anyway. A Crucible of Worlds would also let you put them back into play every turn for basically a free sac fodder to reanimate other artifacts.
December 7, 2018 8:23 a.m.
I do play Great Furnace. I opted out of Darksteel Citadel because it's a colorless land, and I want to keep those to a minimum. Strip Mine and Tectonic Edge, among others, are on the chopping block once we get some more utility red lands, or just amazing utility colorless lands.
The interaction with Artifact Lands and many of the cards in here is not significant enough to require playing both, just as it is not significant enough to run a card solely for those interactions that gains no additional value from Kurkesh, such as Crucible of Worlds. If I need more than one, Prototype Portal and/or Sculpting Steel are perfectly capable of opening those doors.
December 7, 2018 10:57 p.m.
A thing for God mode (yes I know that this is just fun and maybe not price appropriate) but Candelabra of Tawnos can be used to untap not only your own lands but other player's lands too. I am just being silly.
April 28, 2019 9:21 a.m.
Interesting deck! :-)
Is Tower of the Magistrate of any good in the deck?
January 30, 2020 3:13 a.m.
Tower of the Magistrate is one of those cards that is included for handling other decks. It's primary usage is for disrupting Voltron decks that use equipments, as Kurkesh struggles with those kinds of strategies in particular. It can however serve as a trump card in other situations as well, with artifacts that target creatures for positive or negative effects. Its a very handy tool in the toolbox, even when only used to threaten interaction.
February 2, 2020 10:35 a.m.
So being in red means you have limited access to draw and enchantment removal. I only see steel helkite and ugin as your source of enchantment removal. I also hate being mana screwed, but 40 lands is too much. 38 should be enough, 39 if you really want. I personally run 37, but my curve is a bit lower. You also have so much artifact ramp that the lands aren't really necessary. I rarely recommened cutting lands but it seems like the first easy choice here.
Arch of Orazca - Draw
Commune with Lava - Decent draw and can be used an a mana sink once you go infinite
Endless Atlas - Good reliable draw
Skullclamp - Draw, best with your token producers
Solemn Simulacrum - Draw / Ramp
Myriad Landscape - Ramp
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Value value value
Sunbird's Invocation - Above on steroids
Sensei's Divining Top - Amazing on it's own, draw with rings/key
Chaos Warp - Best removal
I see a couple of cuts right away.
+1 Let me know what you think of my suggestions
April 25, 2020 8:38 p.m.
Appreciate the suggestions, however most miss the heart of this list and would actually hurt consistency.
Arch of Orazca is an expensive draw. I already use a good number of other options that are cheaper on top of synergizing with Kurkesh, which with little exception, is the bar for playability here by choice.
Also by choice and as a point of pride, I am trying to keep the number of red spells to a minimum. This has not caused any issue thus far. Rest assured that I have weighed all of my red options and play only what I feel I need, and I believe my results weigh in my favor on this. I'll not be saying any more on the red spells you've suggested.
Endless Atlas is a consideration to be sure. It isn't a game changer, but being from a commander set, I imagine it would not come in foil, correct?
Skullclamp is an exceptional card, but by virtue of not synergizing with Kurkesh and not having enough of a token aubtheme to reliably get value from it, I elected not to play it when I first constructed this deck, and I'll maintain that position now.
Solemn Simulacrum for the same reason, on top of hurting my curve as a 4-drop, where we already have a lot of options.
Myriad Landscape is good but Burnished Hart is better, and this was a balancing decision I made upon construction.
I've so far not needed Sensei's Divining Top, but it's value can't be ignored. I'll put it in the maybeboard for others interested in building the deck.
April 26, 2020 8:38 a.m.
Arch was a whatever idea. I figured it couldn't hurt since you can fit it in the landbase, but yeah, its subpar.
Endless can put in some decent work. I'm not a foil fiend so I don't think so. Personally, I am an alter fiend so I just get cards altered to what I want. That being said, card draw which comes down cheap and cheap to activate is nice.
Skullclamp I figured as much. Just thought it would be worth considering given you have some token production, but you're probably right.
Regarding Myriad landscape + Burnished hart, most people say the opposite because myriad doesn't take up a spot, hart costs 3 to play and 3 to activate, while doing nothing the turn he comes down. Personally, I am in love with both. But myriad landscape would be a better option of the 2 hands down
Honestly? You can't go wrong with top. If any suggestion should be worth including its top. Way too much value to be ignored, I would cut the crystal scrying ball away personally as they perform similar functions.
I had a couple questions/cut ideas. Would you like some ideas for cuts? You mention G-d mode a lot in your description. A lot of the cards like Magistrate scepter (cut #1) are really only useful once you achieve G-d mode. And because of reds lack of tutors, consistent draw, etc... it becomes difficult to get achieve that at times unless (as you stated) the game is slower. I feel that cutting a lot of the "win more" cards that only help you once you are in G-d mode could be replaced with removal and card draw that provides a more consistent and interaction.
April 26, 2020 3:14 p.m.
I've won more than a few games using Magistrates Scepter to get to God mode, for one example.
There's lots of search and card draw, made more valuable and accessible with Kurkesh, as is the base goal of the deck's design. I do not need suggestions for cuts for those suggestions of yours that I'm considering.Appreciate your comments.
April 26, 2020 10 p.m.
Interesting. I'm curious of what your meta is like and how relaxed it is. Of course my good sir! Mono red is an interesting build and I love discussing how to make them better!
April 26, 2020 10:42 p.m.
I don't appreciate your implication that this deck is not powerful or only good on a low-tier environment. Please don't comment here again just because your bitter that your suggestions weren't completely adequate for my finely tuned build.
April 27, 2020 9:55 a.m.
Metachemist says... #19
Have you considered Nim Deathmantle ? It combos with the Myr Battlesphere and KCI as a means to create infinite myrs and infinite mana.
It could also be used to protect your Commander from targeted removal/board wipes.
Edited to correct an inaccurate statement on my part
June 12, 2020 4 p.m. Edited.
Thoughts on Thran Turbine? It's really cheap ramp but for activated abilities only.
June 20, 2020 11:19 a.m.
king-saproling says... #21
no Goblin Engineer? You might like these too: Idol of Oblivion, Furious Rise, Outpost Siege, Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip, Bonders' Enclave, Sequestered Stash, Liquimetal Coating, Mimic Vat, Wayfarer's Bauble, Expedition Map, Mirrorworks, Manifold Key
June 22, 2020 10 a.m.
gingerthewritingdog says... #22
kanokarob it would be cool if you could include some information about your meta and what kind of decks you have found this deck to be good against and what decks you have struggled against. Also suggesting hate cards that we could play in this list against specific decks if we have those in our metas. Overall really cool deck!
November 18, 2020 1:19 p.m.
gingerthewritingdog says... #23
Also I think people should stop discounting the power of this deck. We all know it isn't cEDH, but most decks aren't. With a deck this finely tuned, most inclusions and cuts are purely based on personal preference, which is what this format is about. I don't think it's good to start an argument over personal preferences in a deck. If you have a suggestion for the deck, please phrase it in a way that doesn't seem like you are discounting it power, but rather just stating your personal preference. Also, no one should be taking these arguments over cardboard rectangles as personal attacks. Just recognize that everyone has a different playstyle, and that leads to everyone preferring certain cards in the deck. I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything, but I just hate to see people fighting over EDH decks, as the whole point of the format is to build unique and interesting decks, and saying that a deck isn't powerful just because it doesn't play certain cards is just dumb.
kanokarob says... #1
I do appreciate the deck tech. I'm watching it now and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it. A minor note, you did forget to link the list in your description. Once that's resolved I'd be happy to link your video on my Primer.
As to your suggestions (here, not those in the video):
I concede that I dont have great reasons for not playing Basalt Monolith other than not wanting too many cards that do the same things, and the ones I have to full those roles being preferable to me and the way I play Kurkesh, but my results validate my preferences to me. That said it's by no means bad to have if you have one and find something you're willing to cut.
Gemstone Array is a little slow for the way I play Kurkesh. I'm not big on batteries as a matter of principle. But then again, my playgroups have gotten used to Kurkesh, so I have to play quickly and carefully to keep up my record, so spending time and space on that kind of slow-roll filter is not ideal. Even Azor's Gateway Flip is not guaranteed to stay in, it's just more reasonable in terms of mana cost for casting and for activating, with a huge reward.
The only reason Paradox Engine isn't here is because the way I play Kurkesh, I'm not casting many spells. Most of my interaction is using the abilities of a few artifacts over 4 or 5 turns until I can search out or cheat out the primary combo, and then prefeably get Planar Bridge, which doesn't cast the cards it searches. If one were playing more of an eggs build, or intentionally avoiding using the primary combo, it's absolutely an auto-include. But it's not for my Kurkesh.
And lastly Foundry Inspector, like most artifact cheapeners, does too little for too much. Again, most often I'm not casting very many spells. I play my hand over a few turns, then use what I have on the board to facilitate achieving the primary combo in some fashion. Spending my turn 3 to make my turn 5 (as turn 4 is more often than not spent just casting Kurkesh) faster doesn't do very much, because either I've played most of my artifacts already as they were cheap, or they're 5-6 drops so I can't play multiple in a turn anyway. He's by no means a bad card to include if you feel you need it, but he just doesn't fill the niches I need filled, in my experience.
June 25, 2018 8:39 p.m.