wow. you weren't kidding mr.landdrops. although i wonder if Shardless Agent couldn't be Cloudstone Curio unless you like the 2-1 cost creatures he/she/it finds. plus any colorless creatures turn animar infinate. especially since you can do that with your mana myr's turn 5. i like it :) i need some cascade haha

I tried Cloudstone. Felt slow. Shardless gets me another dude immediately, and I like all those goofy utility guys. Obviously, you know the magic of Bloom Tender, but it's great when you can get free Fauna Shaman or even a Lotus Cobra with fetchs. The more counters I can get on Animar, the quicker you can drop the bombs too. It's more about the casting triggers. Free Spells Are Free Spells.

Also, Elgaud Shieldmate and Hunting Moa are pretty hot tech for Animar. A dude with Diplomatic Immunity and a creature that nets you 3 counters really help build him quick. Getting to 21 General is a thing, and so is smacking your opponent with the squad for 20 on Turn 6.

i like Pyreheart Wolf for evasion. by the time i'm swinging most people don't have enough creatures to devote to them all :)

I tried him too. Guess it's sort of personal preference, but Sun Quan, Lord of Wu has just been the bee's knees for me. Took the Wolf out for Instigator Gang  ^Flip, and I liked it so much I added Hero of Oxid Ridge. That's kind of a goofy add I know, but it's usually early when I'm bringing the hammer down, and putting little dudes out in the way make it pretty not worthwhile. I don't know. I like finding niche cards and unlocking the power of seemingly under-used and appreciated cards.

Also, Archwing Dragon and any one of my Clone dudes like Metamorph or Sakashima have been a pretty sick mini-comboe engine in the deck. With counters on Animar, paying RRUU for two dudes with flying and evasion that you get to re-pump Animar with makes it pretty insane too. Archwing's also good pitch fodder for the Looters in the late game.

hmm, never thought of Archwing Dragon as viable candidate. sometimes you get so sucked up in the big guys you miss the hidden gems. that's what my mono red experiment is doing or at least trying to. my favorite little gems are Mindclaw Shaman, Seedborn Muse (w/Leyline of Anticipation), and Vodalian Mystic

Seedborn's a pretty oppressive card in my playgroup, so I've kinda stopped playing it. My Momir's 100% All-Natural Good Time Family EDH sported some pretty nuts plays with Capsize and the like a few months back, and so I figured I'd keep it out of our meta for a while. I do love that card though. Hopefully I can find a way to get it back in a deck without making it soo busted.

Mindclaw Shaman seems like a card you've got to be pretty lucky with, or be bending said chances with Peek effects or Telepathy. I found him to be disappointing, but I'm glad it works for you. Vodalian Mystic sounds pretty awesome in Animar. Sounds like a good card to be Cascading into! I might try it out, though Duplicant is usually Animar's natural nemesis.

Also, I haven't seen any pure lists online, but one of the guys in my shop told me that there's a version of Animar called "AniMorphs," like the old goofy kids books where teens morph into creatures. The strategy is that you play a bunch of morph costs for free and you hold up mana to transform them on your opponent's turn.

I've learned a lot about the various builds in the past few months. I run an EDH blog to perpetuate my Commander obsession, and I did quite a few segments on Animar where I built the deck, made cuts, updates, etc. So it's always nice to see new tech like Vodalian Mystic. I tend to play and build a lot of decks. Animar's been one of my favorites so far. It's funny, inoffensive, and can be pretty insane when you put the right cards in. This design is pretty consistent in functionality, and you don't have to draw the same cards every time.

i know how you feel about the commander obsession. hell i can't stop thinking about new combos, fun plays, and unique combo's that each deck can provide.

The "AniMorphs" version that i have seen had the potential to blow up in thier face, or "Go off" so to speak which is where i got the Cloudstone Curio idea from. casting morph creatures for 3... then 2... then 1... the bounce, bounce, bounce... you get the picture. Vodalian Mystic came into the picture during my first draft with animar when i wathed to change animars protection but he allowed me to and without taking up a creature slot with a sorcery.

the Oppressive cards are as much needed sometimes as they are hated. i have 3 groups that i play with, one is competative yet fun, one is casual, and one is all inclusive such that i run both types of cards in my decks. it is true that they can make the game for me but that's also where control comes into effect. i don't hold back but i feel the mood and if the table can handle the effect, or someone gets over-zealous then i play what i got.

as far as my version goes, the deck runs good even though i have a lower amount of creatures than what would be "Normal" for Animar. i am always looking for fun replacements.

I just found this guy's Budget Animar! and I think you'd like it. Very similar to my design (he also runs 53 guys), but he's got a few choice spells like Guided Passage and whatnot. seems pretty cool.

Also, I figured that your design probably had some metagaming choices involved, to which I totally understand, and that's another neat thing about Commander. We've all got to find ways to contain our opponents, and it's probably better to have those pieces of counter magic and whatnot.

For some reason though, and I don't know why, the group I'm playing with is very much like-minded in the sense that we like to build decks that inhibit fun but also aren't beating others into submission with our throat-slitting competitive decks. I think it's cause we're all fresh outta college kids who are just bored with that kind of nonsense.

Are you all-in on Animar or are you playing other decks?

i'll check it out. and yea i suppose there are some specific meta choices. my main group is the casually competitive but fun (the all three) and were not cutthroat but i guess we may play aggressive haha. were all in college so we do this in our spare time.

Animar is not my only deck that i am playing with, nor is he my first. my second deck, Karador, Ghost Chieftain i just finished gathering all of the cards and he runs amazing. while yesterday i finished a Rakka Mar Edh deck that is still in its Beta stages.

Although you mentioned Palinchron is a bit too degenerate, have you considered Cloud of Faeries ,Great Whale and Peregrine Drake ? I used the two extensively to extend my turns and how much I could play. They get even better when bounced (but they are not quite degenerate like palinchron)

You also might have fun with Deadwood Treefolk due to all your discard. With bouncing you get a two-for-1. And with so much discard Jaya Ballard, Task Mage may not be a terrible choice if your meta merits it.

Wood Elves go great in an animar deck because the land doesn't come in tapped so you get ramp AND a creature that pays for itself. Combine with Dryad Arbor for an extra counter on Animar.

For avoidance, Balefire Dragon and Champion of Lambholt can both help a huge amount. But the champion may not be as good for your deck as it is in mine.

There's some good ideas here, and I appreciate the feedback. Honestly, I've had a lot of great success with this deck, so I'm not quite sure how much I'm going to tweak this deck, though I'm pretty sure I might take out Primal Surge , Genesis Wave , and Conjurer's Closet cause they haven't been necessary. And I can go almost all-creatures and make Domri pretty good.

But I haven't really needed more extended turns. My deck's good at pacing itself, and I dump my hand at the right time. Also, I don't wanna get greedy and fall into a Wrath.

Even so, I'm not totally sold on using these guys as beatsticks. Though okay utility that can net me gross amounts of mana, it's not the kind of card advantage that this deck really thrives on. Also, I'm a little instinctive and superstitious when it comes to re-tooling my decks, especially when it's been able to bridge the 1v1 and multiplayer gaps so successfully.

Wood Elves seems good. Remember though, Dryad Arbor can't trigger Animar. He isn't a spell, so he can't be cast, and he comes into play off the ability, so that won't work either.

Truth is, I'm actually not pitching cards as often as it looks. Maybe 1-3 cards a game before it's over. I'd purchased a Squee, Goblin Nabob thinking I might need to have this as a strategy, but the Looters aren't too much of a crutch, and neither are the cards I'm throwing away. Don't get me wrong, I love Jaya Ballard, Task Mage , but her services are a lot more useful in my Hidetsugu deck, where I don't mind punishing myself and board state a little more.

Archwing Dragon is awesome. Next to Elgaud Shieldmate and the previously mentioned Hunting Moa , It's one of my favorite pieces of Animar tech. I've had a few games where him and Sakashima the Impostor get cast for RRUU and I go to beatdown-town for 8, and then they come back to my hand while also pumping Animar. It's a nice free way to keep cards in my hand and protect my boardstate. Plus, Dragon can be pitched with little-to-no consequence.

I'm pretty sure that Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is gonna get cut too, possibly for a Mystic Snake . I just added her recently, but I don't see any real reason to have her. I don't like the UU part, and I'm really not concerned about what she does. If Animar dies, I re-cast him. And with all the Cascade and contingencies, I'm ready for that eventuality. I make all my land drops with 41 lands too.

dang, I can't believe me and my friends missed Dryad Arbor . I considered running Elgaud Shieldmate , but the only things on Animar it would block in my meta are Beast Within and Duplicant (nobody really plays things like Lightning Bolt , Pongify , or Polymorph .) and it just isn't worth it for me to put it in for the possibility of such a small threat. Spearbreaker Behemoth blocks wraths pretty effectively if you wanted to deal with the other side of Animar threats.

I was originally advised to put Mystic Snake in my deck too, in addition to Draining Whelk and Venser, Shaper Savant . Despite having broken synergy with Deadeye Navigator and the ability to bounce back in my hand I took them out. I didn't like these cards, not only because of their high cost (or in the case of Venser, just delaying a problem card rather then killing it) but because they didn't help me win the game. Rather then having a set of counterspell-esque cards that MIGHT help stop someone else's combo I could put in cards that WOULD help me win right then and there. That and leaving mana open really hurts in this deck, usually I use all of my mana every turn, and holding two mana (or three) open slows Animar's growth significantly. Your mileage may vary though.

I agree with your assessment. I'm pretty sure I took it out of my original design too. I was also trying to avoid those broken things, but I wouldn't mind having one snake to hold up if I know someone's gonna Wrath.

I do like keeping a certain unpredictability with that deck. Sometimes that means revisiting something you didn't like before. Changing stuff in and out really helps keep people on their toes. The best part is it's pretty possible. Whereas most decks have problems when you try to re-tool, or they have certain cards that you "have to" keep in there, Animar's really unique in the fact that he's creature based, and there's a lot of different ways to find utility guys. As a result, he adapts well to metas.

Spearbreaker Behemoth is a nice idea. I think he runs into the tap-out problem though, but it's a decent option if I get into a pinch. I'm beginning to realize that we should just be running Seedborn Muse so we can do what we want. Spearbreaker is more "on my curve" though, having a lot of colorless mana to leverage value on. Moreso than Venser or Snake. I really like my curve at 2,3, and 4 to have only one color or hybrid symbol in the cost. I've made exceptions, but that choice has saved me quite a few times when I've been in a pinch.

Like I said though, I'm probably only gonna change the last 3-4 cards when I find the right cards that sit well with me for the deck. Other than that, it's pretty tuned for me. I've ran this deck pretty hard for almost 2 months, and it pilots pretty smoothly. I get Animar Turn 3, and I go off every turn after. I'm usually smacking someone for 20 or by Turn 5.

I've been thinking my answers might be Morph dudes. or Flash dudes. Haven't decided which ones though. I'm gonna look into it and do some testing. They seem pretty cool. Brine Elemental would be a nice topdeck to seal off your opponents from Wrath so I can get another, but I'm not totally sold on it or anything else yet. I'd also like to have some more tricks that test my oppponent's skills. Just gonna keep thinking. I've got some other decks that are more pressing, so having Animar with 96 other cards I like seems really good. It's maybe the second or 3rd design I've made that I've been truly happy with. And I've built and played probably over 100 different Commanders.

I appreciate your ideas though! Keep 'em coming if you got some ideas on the Morph or Flash creature front!

If you go morph dudes i'd suggest putting Cloudstone Curio back in, since that card was made for morph guys. But personally I think pretty much all morph guys are not very good, Brine Elemental , Vesuvan Shapeshifter , Nantuko Vigilante (who is a lesser Sylvok Replica imo), Willbender (a lesser Elgaud Shieldmate ) and Akroma, Angel of Fury are the only ones in Animar's colors worth mentioning. And the only one that is REALLY good is Vesuvan Shapeshifter . Also, I personally find it so easy to drop my whole hand with Animar that I don't need morph creatures.

I've thought about Seedborn Muse as well, and most people like to run Leyline of Anticipation ,Alchemist's Refuge ,Winding Canyons and similar cards that allow creatures to be played as instants. The reason I decided against them is that individually the cards are worthless (at least in my deck, the lands especially since I don't need colorless mana) so all of them need to be on the field, which makes for a very clunky combo. I prefer Lighthouse Chronologist for a similar effect all rolled up into one card. Plus with him I get extra combat phases and extra draw, well worth the extra mana he requires.

Totally agree about the Leyline/Alchemist's/Canyons thing. I made those cuts pretty quickly, and opted for Desolate Lighthouse as my one-of colorless land. It's also the reason they're are 41. I have to make sure I can play Animar on Turn 3, or the deck is not as good.

I've tried Curio. The problem with my build is that I have too many Artifact dudes. I'd consider it if I could trigger a bounce every time. Just not consistent enough.

Nantuko Vigilante and his pals seem good but I pretty much agree with you. Plus, those guys are kind of on people's radar. I feel like I need to go to the Island of Misfit Morph Creatures if I'm gonna find the right ones. So I did. Here's what I've come up with. Tell me what you think.

Echo Tracer is my first option. It can bounce itself or help me clear out blockers at instant speed for Animar. Seems like pretty hot tech, while Woodcloaker might provide some trample. Not as excited about him though.

Hystrodon and Riptide Survivor might help me draw cards. I like these as solid options. Of these I like Hystro a little better. Bigger body, hopefully going to net at least one card, and that's really all I need.

Mischievous Quanar just seems like pure fun. Maybe not good here, but I feel like I would play this card somewhere for sure.

Riptide Entrancer isn't high on my list here, but I think it'd be cool to make them think twice about not blocking morph dudes if I'm stealing their best guy. Again, not sure if this guy goes in this deck or another one, but I'd play this card for sure.

Voidmage Apprentice and Shaleskin Plower for possible disruption. I like the Plower better cause I think getting at a Coffers is what this deck needs.

In terms of Flash dudes, the only ones I'm really liking are Jin-Gitaxias and Plaxmanta . I used to have Jin, but I think I sold him cause I couldn't find a home for him in any of my decks, and couldn't foresee this ironic circumstance where I might be trying him out again.

I think I'm going to try Plaxmanta and Hystrodon and Echo Tracer . Plaxmanta might become an Artisan of Kozilek or a Jin-Gitaxias, depending. After all, Kira's not really that good here. Thoughts?

Generally speaking I feel the increased cost later isn't worth the free creature right away. Imagine on your fourth turn you play Woodcloaker for free. If you wanted his trample for turn five you would have to give up four of your five or six mana. Thats a hard sell when you could just cast Roughshod Mentor turn five or six for G. If you want Echo Tracer I would just use Man-o'-War instead. Same effect, but you can bounce a creature for U rather then 2U. Goblin Settler over Shaleskin Plower , Cold-Eyed Selkie over Hystrodon , etc. I do like Riptide Entrancer , but its quite a gamble, you never know if it will work, I prefer repeatable stuff such as Beguiler of Wills who has saved my butt more times then I can count.

I actually really like Plaxmanta . Certainly as good as Glamerdye or Whim of Volrath , if spot removal is bad enough to hurt animar I'd definitely run him. Jin-Gitaxis is a great card to win the game with, but it does WIN games if players can't deal with it on the first turn. Artisan of Kozilek along with the rest of the eldrazi are pretty good. If you need more graveyard recursion stuff then go with him, but I prefer Kozilek, Butcher of Truth for the draw or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre for the indestructible. But that all depends on your own meta. Also I typically wanted to play artisan when I had difficulty doing so (after a board wipe) so consider that as well. Deadwood Treefolk is also very good when it comes to getting stuff back from the grave. And is easier to play if there is no Animar on the field.

I getcha. I think somewhere in between the stats and the sort of on-paper analysis we have here and the side-by-side card analysis there's some other value being generated here that's also worth mentioning.

The ability Morph sort of presents the ability to disguise these cards, an advantage which goes up the more you're willing to play. Based on that as well as the fact that I'm not going to cascade well into Morph creatures, I can see where I might run into some problems.

But I don't think my idea is entirely lost. Sure, there's the sort of coutner-intuitive value you mentioned in casting, then paying the flip cost, which isn't really what I want to be doing in Animar. However, I am paying the toll for something of value, which is combat tricks that no one really expects, and things I could use at instant speed.

Perhaps it will probably still roll around to your original question, which I feel is, "Is X morph card face down better than Y non-morph, value-added Animar card that everyone knows what it is the minute it gets played?" There's a lot to have to process with this deck, doing quick math and the like to figure out what you can cast when, library searches, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, though I'm sure you're right in your speculations, these kinda "bad" card questions excite me enough to want to jump off the bridge or run into the burning building anyway. I'll know pretty quick whether or not they're good though, because the incentives to play them have to be there, and they have to be more than just "I cast this dude for 3 face-down for free." If I end up putting in Morph dudes, it'll either be all-in or all-out. Cause leaving one in is pretty silly.

I think there is a lot of value to these cards like you said. True what you said about having to go all or nothing, me and my friends always joke when we see the ONE morph guy in some decks. We all look at each other and say "Oh no! What could it be?" I also think that the morph creatures make Animar look like far less of a target then if he had a bunch of face up creatures, a problem which any creature-based deck has. In addition, NOBODY would bother wasting a counterspell or a swords to plowshares on a morph, while the same might not be true for a face up card.

Exactly. I did make some changes here last night. I don't know if you saw or not. Basically trying out nothing we talked about, which is kinda funny all things considered.

I added a Terastodon , a Looter il-Kor , Gruul Ragebeast , and the real hot-tech Panglacial Wurm . I'm not sure it makes the deck any better or worse, but I thought Ragebeast might be okay removal, having a cooler looter was good, and Panglacial Wurm for laughs and abusing all my mana ramp guys. Seemed like a nifty way to put another counter on Animar and get a good threat out of the deck. Looter also seems like a nice card to consider for your stuff, if you want a little more draw power. He's basically an unblockable ping effect that nets you cards.

On a side note, the 1v1 games I played last night were pretty nice. Animar got Chaos Warped in one, and I flipped a Fauna Shaman off the Warp. The second game my opponent rolled out a Siege-Gang Commander , which pinged Animar and hurt until I copied him with Metamorph and threw a Goblin back at it. I was able to come from behind in that one and swing for 39 after removing a few choice mana rocks and topdecking Wanderer into Primordial Sage and Sphinx of Uthuun . So the deck does have resilience, even though it doesn't look it.

I think that the resistence comes from the fact that the creatures I play are cards that I'd want to cast regardless of whether or not I get a discount from Animar because they all give me value, mostly via ETB effects. So that's the direction I'm gonna take. Indrik Stomphowler and Sylvok Replica really won me that second game cause he wasn't drawing into land, and I ended up hard-casting them before I played Animar, and I still ended up with something like 11 counters on him before it was all said and done.

I was always really worried about Gruul Ragebeast because although you can get a 2-for-1 every time you play a creature it can also backfire horribly and can prevent you from playing cards like Fauna Shaman . Terastodon I think is a great political tool in multiplayer, you can actually make friends by giving them some elephants. I tried to take a page from your book and put in bigger creatures like Prime Speaker Zegana over little guys. But maybe i'll trade Elvish Visionary for Looter il-Kor , I loose the instant draw and the possibility of bouncing, but I probably would shuffle through more of my deck.

Ragebeast is definitely a more skill-intensive card. I'm probably gonna use it simply for trading with Titans. It's worse than Pit Fight , but if you're always playing bigger dudes it should scale nicely. I'll probably end up pitching it to Fauna Shaman or a Looter though. That's still kinda good though. I don't need every card in my deck to be a hero. That puts a lot of stress on my Looters.

Looter il-Kor is a nice one. I've been playing it in blue decks for a while now, and I haven't been disappointed. If you're having card draw problems, though, you're probably better off with benching one of your low cost bounce guys. Visionary has been very good to me in here, with Deadeye and whatnot. I'd be reluctant to make that switch simply because of that.

Have you had a chance to play Prime Speaker yet? I'm wondering how good that card is in the deck. A friend and I were having a debate about whether or not that card is good as a Commander, cause I think it's more of a blowout when you've got the element of surprise. I'd love to draw a bajillion cards off Animar with her. I'd probably replace Ragebeast or Terastodon if I could guarantee 5-7 cards.

Don't get me wrong. I like the big Elephant, but if I can spend my mana better digging into the deck versus wrecking people's stuff, I probably will. This deck is already a tough contender as is, and I don't need to be that destructive to be imposing. Sun Quan and Wanderer are already pretty instrumental in that department.

I haven't tested her live yet, but she can draw my deck if I can bounce something on animar (and then I bounce her so I can draw another huge amount). Even if animar is tiny, she can still draw 7 off a 6/6 creature which is beyond awesome. If she gets doombladed you still draw your cards too, overall I love it and can't wait to test her against my friends.

mr.landdrops. currently i'm refocusing my Animar deck to be more objective focused and possibly more competitive. Also changing the deck name soon so hopefully this will be an eye catcher. i have one more gift to bestow before i hope to see your input on my Animar 3.0 :) . Void Stalker . i LOVE this guy, is that general across the field making your happy face turn into something that looks like a child just lost his ice cream cone? why not put stalker and it back into the deck? sure your down a creature but who cares. its just void stalker :)

Zharmiso. Cool! Lemme know how Zegana works. I'm coming around to this card, and I do love a good Simic creature, so I might give it a whirl too.

ninnyz, Stalker is nice tech. I found one myself a while back looking through a trade binder and I was using him until recently in my former Chisei, Heart of Oceans EDH.

On the Animar curve, I like him too. He's basically an early version of Phyrexian Ingester , which you can let lay dormant for a while on the table before removing blockers. Zharmiso and I have been talking about ways to clear the path for Animar, and this is another great option.

The one drawback is the activation cost, but it's usually worth it to get Rhys the Redeemed or someone with a Voltron strategy out of the way. Lu Bu, Master-at-Arms and Horobi, Death's Wail are two creatures I'd love to Void Stalk in my own personal meta. At its worst it's a rattlesnake card, forcing people to think twice about playing their general, and it's a wayy better Gomazoa , and I played that card to death too.

Lemme know when you make your changes! I'm anxious to see what you've got!

One of my favourite Animar decks on this website. My only recommendation since you have an entire deck of permanents --> Primal Surge and Genesis Wave . You've definitely got the mana base for these two cards, so also consider fitting the three praetors in there: Urabrask the Hidden , Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger , and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur . They are downright nasty in multiplayer!