Asok_Green says... #2
@mbern, Why, thank you! That's... flattering. If you maybe feel like upvoting it, I'd be very appreciative. It would help me get more views, and logically, more sexual partners.
April 8, 2015 11:51 a.m.
I feel like Jenara, Asura of War is the most fair Bant general (barring some obscure vanilla legend from Legends) so I'm incluned to like any deck of her I see.
April 9, 2015 9:22 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #4
@Steaditup, Agreed, and other people have said this, as well. I think it's because she isn't broken, she's just... solid. She's a real threat, but not because she has some complicated or undercosted mechanic; she simply gets bigger each turn, and only so much as you pay for, and she has flying. There's something respectable about her.
April 9, 2015 11:11 p.m.
I have played against Angus EDH before, though, and as someone who typically turns creatures sideways to progress my game plan, that is really, really annoying.
April 9, 2015 11:20 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #6
@Steaditup, Well, I really don't like for my decks to be annoying (is that odd?), and so usually use him in 1-on-1 only as a desperate measure. At any rate, in 1-on-1 I can't really spare the mana I'd need to leave open to use him every turn; I need it to build Jenara or put out Thassa or Neurok Stealthsuit, toys that stick around and add to the strength of my board. Angus' flavor text is, "Battle no longer served a purpose in Karakas," and that's more what I intend him to be used for: deterrent. This deck doesn't say, "you can't attack me," it says, "there's no point in it." In multiplayer, when someone has a finite number of creatures and knows I won't use Angus' fog ability so long as they don't attack me, I'm hoping they'll just swing at someone else while I quietly continue expanding my mana base and assembling a combo. Eventually someone takes him out, but often my board has developed so much that they then have other reasons not to attack me.
April 9, 2015 11:45 p.m.
I notice and respect that you don't run Prophet of Kruphix even though she's amazing with both your generals. The angus player in my group did, and he would assemble massive boards that nobody could touch and there was almost no way to punish him. That's more of what I expect when I see an Angus in the game. In light of her absence from your list, I would give you another +1 if I could.
April 9, 2015 11:55 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #8
@Steaditup, Heh, well, thank you. I wish I could tell you I would never even consider it, but... yeah I considered it. But, as I think you'll agree, Prophet of Kruphix is like an anti-Jenara. Everyone just kind of hates her instantly, and while she's just a dynamite mana-accelerator (and look at everything she would supercharge: Kazandu Tuskcaller, Kiora's Follower, Selvala, Explorer Returned, it's nuts), there's just no way to play her and not get the attention of the entire table. Contrast her with Heartwood Storyteller or even Oracle of Mul Daya. Cards easily capable of shifting the power of the table, but met with much less hate. What you'll experience with this deck is opponents looking over at some point and almost being shocked at the state of your board. "How did that happen?" is kind of the reaction, because everything has been carefully chosen to be just small enough to not wave a big red flag. Exceptions are, of course, creatures like Avacyn, Angel of Hope or Empyrial Archangel (you can use Wargate to stick Indestructibility or Shield of the Oversoul on her, right past the shroud; great fun), but the idea there is that by the time they hit, you're solid. Plenty of times casting Prophet of Kruphix just ends up sticking a big, "kill me" sign on the caster, without giving them much time to enjoy Prophet's (admittedly awesome) abilities.
April 10, 2015 12:14 a.m.
You run Academy Rector and a bunch of infinite mana combos. Why not Helix Pinnacle? Great way to win without hitting anyone, if a bit non-interactive.
April 10, 2015 12:18 a.m.
Asok_Green says... #10
@Steaditup, Ooh, Helix Pinnacle is another great card, and another one that was in here for a long time (at the same time that Bloom Tender was in it, which also combos with Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura but can't make infinite blue mana). I took it out mainly because, as you mention, it's rather non-interactive (I took out Memnarch for the same reason. With infinite blue mana you can steal the entire board! Sounds like it should be so much fun, but is such a disappointing win, truly). The other reason I took it out is that I agonized over every. last. slot. and realistically, Helix Pinnacle is only useful after I have infinite mana. Sometimes infinite mana just doesn't come. I hate that it's so, but it is. So when that happens, I need whatever I do draw to still be useful if I hope to scrape out a win.
April 10, 2015 12:29 a.m.
Asok_Green says... #11
Okay gang, what do you think about this: -1 Forbidden Orchard, +1 Lotus Vale.
"But Forbidden Orchard is great fun!" Yes, it is.
"In multiplayer, it can be used politically, too!" Yes, it can.
"It taps for any color, and a tri-color deck needs all the color-fixing it can get!" Yes, it does.
"Lotus Vale would be a lightning rod for land destruction!" Yes, it would.
"Then why??" Because in 1-on-1, Forbidden Orchard hurts, fast, and because the addition of Lotus Vale would add 6 more any-color infinite mana combos into the deck.
"Your deck already has 16 ways to make any-color infinite mana. Would it really benefit from having 6 more?" ABSOLUTELY.
April 10, 2015 12:08 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #12
Oh! And another change I want to pitch: -1 Grand Architect, -1 Pili-Pala.
"Okay, you want to kill one of your precious mana combos. Why?"
Because: Other than combo, they don't do anything for my deck (that I can see, at least. If I'm missing something, correct me). I can't meaningfully use either one alone for anything. While they used to be an unknown combo, a lot of people know about them now, and even with those who don't, I can't cast Pili-Pala without them smelling that I'm probably up to no good with it. Also, the cards don't really jive with the rest of the deck thematically. And I'm kind of a dork and so care about dorky stuff like that (see how there's one leveling creature in each Bant color? That's no accident).
"What would you fill the slots with?"
That's also what I need help with. Considering: Voyaging Satyr (4 more any-color infinite mana combos, or 6 more if Lotus Vale also ends up in the deck), plus one other. Maybe Tooth and Nail, though I hate to take out a creature, as having a lot of them is what makes Primitive Etchings work.
April 10, 2015 12:39 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #13
Okay! So, I've made roughly the changes I brought up before, and though it hasn't really been through enough playtesting yet to be certain, I think the changes are staying. I was particularly pleased tonight when a Lotus Vale helped me pull out a win even under the effect of Rising Waters. I was still able to build Jenara by two +1/+1 counters per turn (three white mana from Lotus Vale and one from whatever land I played that turn), and so despite losing most everything to a Nevinyrral's Disk a few turns prior, I came out on top. As I thought I might, I took out Grand Architect and Pili-Pala, and replaced one of them with Voyaging Satyr. The other slot I filled with Reckless Scholar, not the choice I was expecting, but one which I can both use to assemble a combo through card draw, and/or use to draw my opponent(s) to death by enchanting him with one of the untap-for-blue auras while sitting on infinite mana or else attacking with him and Ith, High Arcanist equipped with Illusionist's Bracers.
Forbidden Orchard is also out, as is Ancient Ziggurat, which would be playable if it tapped for colorless or if its mana could also be used for activated abilities of creatures, but just isn't quite right for this deck as it is. In addition to Lotus Vale, the other replacement land is Wooded Bastion, one that got taken out back when I didn't have so much use for double white or green mana, and really should have been put back in long ago.
April 12, 2015 1:36 a.m.
Maze of Ith doesn't work unless the creature is attacking however, so the infinite mana combos with it don't work.
December 9, 2015 3:45 p.m.
Don't get me wrong, I love the deck and the ideas are great! But that doesn't work for infinite mana
December 9, 2015 3:46 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #16
leoAA1997, Maze of Ith's ability doesn't remove the target attacking creature from combat. The attacking creature remains an attacking creature, despite being untapped and unable to deal or receive damage. Therefore if it becomes tapped again, and if Maze of Ith becomes untapped again, then the creature is still a perfectly valid target for Maze of Ith's ability. The infinite mana combos work just fine.
December 22, 2015 10:18 a.m.
"Untap target attacking creatures". The creature has to be attacking
December 22, 2015 3:56 p.m.
Asok_Green says... #18
Follow me, here:
Attack with Argothian Elder. It is now an attacking creature.
Tap Maze of Ith, targeting Argothian Elder. Argothian Elder untaps, BUT is still an attacking creature.
Tap Argothian Elder, untapping Maze of Ith and one other land.
Maze of Ith can now be tapped again, and as Argothian Elder is still an attacking creature, it is still a valid target for Maze of Ith.
Repeat as many times as you like.
Now all of this is done during your combat phase, so whatever you do with that mana or land-untapping has to work at instant speed. But there's a lot you can still do. If Squirrel Nest is attached to a land, you can use it to make a hundred thousand squirrel tokens. Or you could use Chord of Calling and Mischievous Quanar to put every creature in the deck onto the battlefield. Pemmin's Aura or Freed from the Real can be used to translate infinite mana into infinite untapping of a creature, which make Kazandu Tuskcaller or Stuffy Doll a lot more fun. If you threw in Helix Pinnacle you also could throw a hundred counters on it all at once, and then so long as you're alive the next turn, you probably won the game.
There's really a lot of possibilities, even at instant speed.
mbern says... #1
I love this so much I want to have sex with it, disappoint it greatly, have a cigarette, and have it leave at 5 in the morning, taking my Xbox with it.
April 8, 2015 11 a.m.