Augustin's $t4ks (cEDH Primer)
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 206 | 199 COMMENTS | 43497 VIEWS | IN 85 FOLDERS
feyn_do_alduin says... #2
true, however due to the overwhelming board presence I can summon just by playing lands, in my meta I feel like I need to take a handicap like having no more than one way to react to non-burnable threats.
for this I use World Breaker, it's recurrable to!!
October 15, 2016 8:56 p.m.
Winterblast says... #3
World Breaker is nice, but it costs 7 mana, which means it's definitely no early game disruption. You asked me what I think of our matchup and that's basically the answer - little to no disruption means that you won't be able to establish a useful board position at all in most games.
It's not only Augustin that may be played on turn 1 but also (and even easier) Lodestone Golem because it can be cast with Mishra's Workshop, or Sphere of Resistance or Thorn of Amethyst because 2 or 3 mana on turn 1 are very common. Something like Ancient Grudge or Shattering Spree would be great to have then because anything more expensive won't help.Reclamation Sage is also fine because it's cheap enough. If a deck doesn't have any of these (or similar stuff in other colours) it will have a very very hard time.
October 16, 2016 5:15 a.m.
feyn_do_alduin says... #4
the sad thing is that once you add the minimum 4-5 recurrable artifact/enchantment removal effects, it more or less slows the deck down by ATLEAST 2 turns therefore removing it's early game lethality and its competitive status IF you're already lacking the most expensive legacy and modern cards.
I'm between jobs atm. While I have the money to acquire them, It doesn't make sense to do that right now. So in the interim i'm shelving all projects including this one.
THAT said, prices aside, what one do you suggest i add?
October 16, 2016 6:53 p.m.
Winterblast says... #6
It depends on what you usually lose against and why that happens. It doesn't make much sense to tune your deck against mine, when nobody around your plays something similar AND manages to win against you frequently. Stax is expensive to play, because you don't need speed by chance, you need it consistently and that means you can't settle for cheaper options (money-wise) for the same effects if they have higher casting costs or downsides that more expensive cards don't have. I guess your toughest matchup will therefore be a control deck with counterspells as it's unrealistic that you run into Stax-like builds very often. And if you do, well, that's bad luck then. Think about how to tune your deck after someone showed up with such a deck...
A great card that won't slow you down would be Leyline of Lifeforce. I use that in one of my other decks, which is also full of creature based combos. Also Dosan the Falling Leaf, Seedtime or Vexing Shusher could help to prevent you from running into counters when you actually wanted to go big with Omnath. Having your commander countered by Mana Drain is the worst that can happen because it could possibly enable a hardcasted Blightsteel Colossus or nasty Eldrazi, while you simultaneously lose your means to defend yourself. Surviving control is surely more important than being able to cast the commander one or two turns earlier. If you have other combo decks around you might consider specific cards that prevent their tricks while letting you play as usual. Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, Null Rod,...just have a look at what hurts the other decks most.
October 17, 2016 3:39 a.m.
Winterblast says... #7
feyn_do_alduin do you have an idea what I could improve in my deck?
I have thought about Words of Wind, because it is a potential win option...or something to protect my cards from removal (see maybeboard). I need to reduce the number of coloured cards though, so I have to look for stuff that has not a huge impact and replace it with uglier cards.
October 18, 2016 4:40 a.m.
RicketyEng says... #8
Wrt Brago, I was going to point out that he can enable you to re-assign Paradox Haze to different players, but then I realized it isn't in the deck anymore. Brago would also give you some versatility to the only other aura you have, Power Artifact. That is, if you decide to keep Power Artifact (unfortunately on that one I can give little opinion).
If you want something different to try, have you considered the Knowledge Pool + Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir hard lock? Teferi alone would prevent your opponents from getting in your way at instant speed.
For protection in your maybeboard, maybe Padeem, Consul of Innovation would be worth trying? The two decks are very different from each other, but when my Daretti, Scrap Savant deck needed its graveyard protected I started using Orbs of Warding to give myself hexproof. That would be an inclusion dependent on your metagame. Also from your maybeboard I think Inventors' Fair could find a nice home here. Its lifegain can help offset those incidentals you mention, and it is also a potent tutor with all the artifacts in you deck. Crucible of Worlds making it reusable is all the better for it.
October 18, 2016 1:16 p.m.
Hey, thanks for the comment on my deck. I have two cards I'd suggest here: Blind Obedience and Meekstone.
Meekstone is an all star in my edh experience and I include it in any deck with Trinket mage as part of his toolkit. I'd say it hits a vast majority of creatures played in commander except tokens. Blind Obedience will help you keep yourself from being pinged to death by lands and the cost is pretty efficient for what you get.
P.s. If you start missing chronatog you should consider Chronatog Totem imo it's been more useful for me.
October 18, 2016 4:26 p.m.
Winterblast says... #10
dlamars thx for the suggestions! Unfortunately blind obedience isn't an option because it has in the text.
Meekstone sounds good, only affects sun titan and spelltithe enforcer (which is already among my "maybe not" cards) in my deck and creatures equipped with sword of fire and ice (actually I've noticed that sword is often not cool with ensnaring bridge as well - might be replaced).
Chronatog totem is imo even worse than Chronatog because while it makes mana, you can't keep up a constant lock as it is is possible with Chronatog or Sundial of the Infinite. You have to pay to make it a creature, then won't get to untap when the turn is skipped and eventually run out of mana and you have to take a turn now and then. I've explained in the deck description why I will probably play sundial over all other options
RicketyEng I guess I can play Padeem, also because he potentially draws cards. 3U is also a nice cost, easier to play than anything with WW for example. I don't think I need anything to give myself hexproof though...I rarely get targeted with anything.
Teferi is pretty much unplayable with UUU, I'm happy if I can play a card with UU when I draw it. The lock is cool though, maybe I put it in another deck, where Teferi is already included!
Inventors Fair will most likely replace Mishra's factory tomorrow. Inkmoth and blinkmoth are much better anyway and probably enough manlands...what do you think?
October 18, 2016 5 p.m.
feyn_do_alduin says... #11
well, seeing on how well your deck can potentially shut down a game, for non-competitive games you should incorperate effects and abilities that add an element of chance or something that can randomize how certain plays end.
for example in blue (the name of the card escapes me) there's an effect where if one person were to play an instant or sorcery in a clockwise order every player is given the opportunity to copy that spell and cast it for free.
Hard control decks like this often suck the fun out of a game, so maybe you could use unpredictable effects like this to make things random while still maintaining a degree of control to make things fun again
October 18, 2016 5:31 p.m.
Reminder text doesn't count towards color identity since technically it doesn't exist as far as the rules are concerned. So Blind Obedience or any extort card is usable in mono white or black.
You're right about Chronatog Totem I suppose, I use it more as a back up than an infinite lock in esper. Creatures die so quickly in my meta I take what I can get.
October 18, 2016 5:40 p.m.
Winterblast says... #13
Oh, that's nice, I didn't know that the symbol in the extortion text doesn't count. Not so sure though, if that card is really better than any other already in the deck...
Just realised that Sun Titan has vigilance so I think Meekstone will be included.
feyn_do_alduin, putting cards in a control deck, from which everyone benefits is neither fun nor does it make any sense imo. Playing this deck mostly results in a situation in which I play against 3 or 4 other people and it's hard enough to win, because I'm the only one who has to find solutions to ALL players' threats while the others pretty much ignore each other. This often results in a win for the player with the most blatant and impossible strategy, just because no one focuses on him. Every card I play has to have a huge impact on the game to have a chance of winning against the whole table and each "fun" piece isn't really fun to play because it only makes myself lose faster. Stax is only fun when it is strong and actually this deck creates the most laughs on the table (well, mostly from people who are not actually in the game, but the spectators find it very funny every time).
October 19, 2016 3:35 a.m.
feyn_do_alduin says... #14
these kinds of plays are strictly speaking a handicap, but I always have ATLEAST one card in each of my decks which can be used politically or used to create chaos. I find games to be more fun where there's a greater element of chance as opposed to the super grindy ones where each move is heavily weighed and measured.
The use of chaotic effects can also break tension in the room allowing for more relaxed opponents (which i find to ALWAYS be a greater benefit)
October 19, 2016 4:35 a.m.
Winterblast says... #15
Actually I really hate chaos plays and from my experience it often ends with all players being pissed off. It's the same with very obvious misplays, when everyone already pointed out that some action is not a good choice and a player still pulls it off...that's when people get angry and carry their mischief into the next round as well. It surely depends on the players and if that works for you it's fine. I would say that chaos plays always end up in favour of someone, who really didn't deserve to win in a game with 3, 4 or even 5 players and leaves everyone frustrated who put much time, effort and also money in a well thought out deck. The more experienced players have no problem with losing if it was earned. If you lose because someone got lucky in a chaotic situation or profited by chance from severe misplays of others, that just sucks.
October 19, 2016 4:59 a.m.
Winterblast says... #16
There's a tournament on Wednesday and I'm looking forward to the experience. Commander tournaments are quite rare and I will need to tune the deck a bit for 2 player games...probably using Pithing Needle again and maybe Forcefield and Sword of Fire and Ice too. Another planeswalker (jace) might be added but there's not much time left to prepare or test. Unfortunately Ravages of War and Sunder won't arrive before tomorrow so I will have to rely on what I already have.
Still waiting on details to be revealed but it is surely a torunament with the original banlist, not the French one, meaning Augustin is going to hit fully powered as given above. I will write a short report in the updates then, if I can remember enough of what happened in the games!
October 25, 2016 4:31 a.m.
skrid54321 says... #17
Id cut city of Brass for Skycloud Expanse. No damage, plus it can filter colorless mana.
October 25, 2016 11:45 a.m.
skrid54321 says... #18
Thalakos Lowlands could and should be replaced with Flooded Strand as well
October 25, 2016 11:48 a.m.
Winterblast says... #19
They will probably be added but won't replace another colour producing land, rather one that makes only colorless...the problem with skycloud expanse is that it only works if there is already other mana available, just as it is with the signet. I've already taken out reflecting pool because it often didn't work and I'm not sure if that's also the case with skycloud expanse. More colour is always good so I will test it.
Thalakos lowland works well in the deck because I'm often bouncing most of my lands anyway and then the doesn't untap side effect isn't relevant. Maybe you have mistaken it for the old fetchlands that came into play tapped?
Flooded strand could replace a basic land or another uncoloured land...I haven't used fetchlands at all because I don't really want to reduce the already low amount of lands while playing. Being able to shuffle is great though, so I might include one fetchland.
October 25, 2016 12:03 p.m.
skrid54321 says... #20
My problem was not with lowlands downside. I personally think the fetch has essentially no downside, so its just a strict upgrade. It does not thin in commander, the percentage change is negligible. As for Skycloud Expanse, keep in mind it can filter colorless mana.
October 25, 2016 12:11 p.m.
Winterblast says... #21
I'd still rather remove a land that produces no colour at all instead, because colour is the main problem, even though there are not many coloured spells in the deck. Kor Haven, Mishra's factory or Blinkmoth Well are on my cut list anyway.
Maybe I can find skycloud expanse at the shop tomorrow, if not I can only go with flooded strand
October 25, 2016 12:20 p.m.
Winterblast says... #22
I've put in a random Bribery for the tournament tomorrow (instead of cyclonic rift). Most people will have at least one ugly eldrazi basher in the deck and if that potentially hits turn 2, it's pretty much over. Even later, with a softlock in place it's probably game winning...it's absolutely random but it's a trump card.
October 25, 2016 7:06 p.m.
TheLordStormCrow says... #23
What are your thoughts on Dovin Baan, Narset Transcendent, Grand Abolisher, Torrential Gearhulk, Cataclysmic Gearhulk and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage?
October 26, 2016 4:05 p.m.
Winterblast says... #24
K00lDudE1 I'll comment on each of these cards...
Dovin Baan: looked great when I first saw him because he protects himself with the first ability and the ultimate is a Static Orb only for opponents. BUT I believe you can't play a planeswalker because of his ultimate (as you probably won't get to pull it off anyway unless you already control the whole table) and his 2nd ability isn't worth removing counters from him. Canceling creatures' activated abilities is done best by Cursed Totem, also Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker if I want to have more similar effects, because they are all artifacts and can be cast easier, faster and also with Mishra's Workshop.
Narset Transcendent: tested in the very beginning of the deck - 2nd ability is useless here, first ability isn't a reliable card draw either...not playing her for the ultimate alone (besides, Jace, Unraveler of Secrets is much better imo, so he would be the first choice if I included another planeswalker)
Grand Abolisher: needs to be cast early to have an impact against control and with WW I can't reliably do that. I rather drop a Sphere of Resistance or Thorn of Amethyst instead...
Torrential Gearhulk: no targets in this deck
Cataclysmic Gearhulk: doesn't attack the lands and doesn't remove planeswalkers, so I rather go with the original Cataclysm. By reducing artifacts and enchantments to one I hurt myself much and if I don't take the lands with the same action I lose more than I win.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage: to be considered for my 1 vs 1 tournament version of this deck (Augustin's $t4ks (tournament version)) because she can tap out mana artifacts (happened to me yesterday, it's pretty effective). Costs 5 mana and doesn't have a global effect, tapping one permanent is not often essential with more people on the table...2nd ability could potentially draw some cards but is it worth ? When enough tapped creatures are on the board from which Tamiyo could get cards, she will surely be killed in the next turn...not enough impact for multiplayer imo.
From these cards I would consider Dovin Baan for multiplayer and Grand Abolisher for one on one. Dovin Baan might indeed survive long enough with his first ability to get to the ultimate and then it's devastating. Grand Abolisher might improve the matchup against other control decks in 2 player games, but something without double white would be great...
October 27, 2016 5:47 p.m.
Shane.Allen says... #25
really great beautiful deck, its so good would love to play against this one. :)
Winterblast says... #1
Yeah, that's what I thought, but that requires not being disturbed until turn 3 or so while you don't slow down the opponents either during these turns. Control loves these matchups, even a simple counterspell will be fine...in my deck it's not counters though (except for mana drain) but proactive control. I lose when I am not faster and in addition can't handle the first threats within a few turns. Letting me play undisturbed in the beginning is no trick because that's when I try to keep everyone from getting started.
I think a bit more artifact/enchatment hate would be great in your deck. Depends on your meta too, I'm just talking from my experience and I think about what hurts most of my decks. Combo pieces are often artifacts or enchantments and the worst control elements are too.
October 15, 2016 4:52 p.m.