Nietzsky I had Teferi in the deck until I accidentially sold him. He is ok but it wasn't overwhelming imo. First of all, he starts with 2 loyalty less than Narset and he takes one more +1 to ultimate. Another aspect of Teferi, that I didn't like too much, was that the untapping of lands EOT was pretty much irrelevant and his 2nd ability sets him on 1 if used immediately. Narset on the other hand could potentially use it 3 times in a row before she dies. The rebound would be used on stuff like Transmute Artifact, Timetwister, Manifold Insights, Hurkyl's Recall, Disenchant (if it's in the deck)...but more often than not I'd focus on getting Narset to 9 while drawing a few extra cards. Her costing only 2 mana with GAAIV makes her an easy play between others. I have around 13-15 instants/sorceries that make sense to rebound (obviously not counting MLD and counters).

As for the Disenchant/Counterspell question, I don't play reactively in general with this deck. It's all about slamming down the pieces as early and fast as possible and refilling the hand with strong engines...being able to keep a counter once in a while is fine, but mostly I will be destroying mana sources that have been cast before GAAIV was in play and also remove stuff that has already resolved because I spent my turn for putting more obstacles into play. Especially in the early game I don't want to hold back mana for potentially countering something, but rather play my stuff proactively and destroy what an opponent could still cast in my next turn. This is because the available proactive moves have a high potential of preventing important plays from opponents in the first place.

Spellseeker is better than merchant scroll because it's instant or sorcery and doesn't have to be blue. I don't play Merchant Scroll because there's no blue instant I'd really need that much to include a special tutor for it. As additional tutor I have put in Muddle the Mixture because cmc 2 is a lot more important to find (Cursed Totem, Rest in Piece, Gilded Drake, Sphere of Resistance, Cyclonic Rift...). Spellseeker is a really strong card in general, perfect in my Najeela and Circu deck for example, but there it gets exactly the cards I want to find most of all. Here I'm not sure about it anymore.

Chalice of the Void blocks like a third of everyone's spells so it's pretty strong. I would even say in combination with Lavinia it would shut down even more because she prevents the more expensive spells from being cast, chalice counters cmc 1 (that's what it should do) and without taxes Lavinia counters cmc 0 as well. With taxes in addition the whole board will be a big mess in which people have to think twice about which cards are even castable. I think having Lavinia in the same deck as Chalice is not bad at all...The question is just how many situations are there in which countering cmc 1 spells is bad for me too. It didn't have a negative impact on my plays before, but then I had more combo options that didn't need divining top. I would argue that putting chalice in should go along with using at least staff and probably metalworker as well in my build.

Personal Tutor is interesting and I even have one at home. There are several high impact sorceries, from Timetwister to Armageddon and having another cmc 1 tutor for these can be helpful. Catastrophe is nice because of the flexibility but 2 cmc more than the creature/lands only boardwipes is a bit much. Especially when there are Back to Basics and Winter Orb to fuck with lands as well. There's also Sunder and Mana Breach. I think instead of running more but weaker LD cards I'd rather maximise the chances of finding them when needed. timespiral as a third wheel might be really interesting, also in combination with personal tutor.

Could you link your build to compare?

My build: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/anti-competitive-gaaiv-embrace-the-hate/ . Our builds deviate in a few ways, but basically

Mine is a paper list, and I have no intentions of ever purchasing Tabernacle, Timetwister, Candelabra, etc. in paper. The most expensive single I plan on owning is Mox Diamond , so my intentions aren't to create a 4000 stax primer, merely to build my iteration of MLD Azor given my parameters. With that being said, there is a little value in my collection now =).

I play it safe with Iso, boring to most I know, but tried and true. Nosticks, Boomsticks, Dramascepters.... it's one of my favorite cards in the format. Merchant Scroll has a bit more relevance for me due to Dramatic Reversal .

Relative to planeswalkers, I generally don't even look at the ultimates on walkers unless they're in proliferate or doubling season decks, and Leyline of Anticipation also opens a lot of avenues with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria that may not exist without the include. Gilded Drake holds an even dearer place in my heart =).

I agree on your comments relative to Catastrophe , you merely mentioned issue with getting your hands on LD during playtests, so I was throwing up all of the redundancy I have historically used in my LD package (I would always use Thorn of Amethyst over Vryn Wingmare if I could only slot 1 for instance, but I run both).

Relative to Disenchant, I still think both are reactive, though I'll say an even better fit... Negate. At least now you can eat ramp AND wincons, and that pesky Flash out of nowhere.... if you're about disenchant I feel it, maybe it's personal, but I would feel more comfortable sitting at a table with a Negate in my hand than a Disenchant personally.

I definitely like the include of Personal Tutor and have been considering dropping Teferi PW out of my iteration to bring down my average CMC (at the present it ate Isolate 's slot)) and because I view 1 more chance at MLD as more impactful than either Narset or Teferi ultimately.

Nietzsky thanks for the link!

I see you play more reactive and scepter also requires different cards. I'm playing more cards that prevent scepter and the like, In the Eye of Chaos for example is specifically anti-instant tech and while it is just one card in 99 it definitely has some impact on card choices. One result is playing more proactively and not passing turns and keeping counterspells in case something important is cast. That in turn makes Teferi worse than Narset and the land untapping pretty much irrelevant. Also leads to the disenchant > negate issue...let's say I have the option of casting something or keep the mana open for negate. I would always slam down what I have and play a disenchant on my next turn IF someone has managed to play something like mana rocks or whatever instead of having to decide whether I play or keep a reaction for something that might not come (and lose a turn). Of course, there are spells that can't be dealt with on the following turn, but in the early game it's often rocks that slipped through and that I want to remove again and later my playstyle forces opponents to spend their little resources on not losing to each other's threats when I keep playing aggressively. That works better the more competitive the table is, but to be honest I wouldn't want to run into random suboptimal decks with GAAIV anyway...as I have built it now it's best against opponents that can actually do something an not just want to get value on the table. When playing online against random people I have exchanged Manifold Insights with Supreme Verdict (maybe Wrath of God, not sure if the colour requirement is better than can't be countered) because it happens more often that people just leave a game or their prog crashes and there's also the possibility of running into more creatures than I see locally.

I tried playing Personal Tutor instead of Spellseeker (or Serra Ascendant, I am playing around with changes a bit) and it feels rather good. getting MLD or a wheel is nice. got to check if the cmc restriction is worse than getting only sorceries...

On a side note, I do think that the budget has a lot of impact on how you can play stax. The game warping potential of some high priced cards is so massive that you can build around them in a way that can't be done if you need budget replacements.

Oh and as for the ultimates of planeswalkers: Narset enters with 6, can go to 7 in the same turn. That means it's in the 3rd turn after you cast her that the ulti can be used if she doesn't lose loyalty. That's pretty fast, especially when the whole deck aims at slowing everyone down as much as possible. Narset is a walker that actually has a realistic chance of pulling of the ulti and her costing only UW with GAAIV also helps in achieving that. Imagine a hand that can drop a t2 GAAIV and then you draw into Narset (or already have her in hand)...that's quite massive

Hey Winter, thanks for the comments. I agree the difference comes down to a play style, and more than likely we experience different metas. For instance, lots of people at my local LGS started slotting Aura Shards because of Augustin, so under no circumstance could I afford to drop Torpor Orb (I've had games where Aura Shards showed up on the table 3 times for Christ's sake... I can't one-shot that away). Also, as Aura Shards decks ALWAYS bring dorks (there's a birds or elves hitting t1 in the overwhelming majority of my games), this is why a few months prior I highly valued Isolate , whereas you may have had more of a lukewarm reception to it.

Question for you.... I highly value my Leyline of Anticipation and use it to often circumvent the exact dilemma you are presenting (Do I play my artifact piece and potentially let something through that I could potentially answer, or do I hold flash open, hold my counterspell and my stax piece, and wait to see if I'm either end-stepping a piece or counterspelling). Have you tried running this card in your Augustin? It's to the point where I'm about to make room for Idyllic Tutor just because of Blind Obedience Land Equilibrium Rest in Peace or even a cheeky Copy Artifact .

Narset- I hear every point you make and yes, a 2 costed PW is absolutely bonkers. It felt absolutely lovely when I rebounded Long-Term Plans , dropped Windfall and had a top online, but 1 Rebound is going to kill your ultimate plan, and chances are in my deck her +1 is more likely to hit a non-applicable card than a applicable one. She served me well for 6 months though, don't blame you slotting her.

Relative to high-end cards and cost, I agree to an extent. If I had no budget restrictions, my deck would be Sen Triplets with The Abyss , Nether Void ,black tutor and ritual package, and 80% of the value on your list more than likely. As it stands now, I don't feel I'm at a critical disadvantage if my opponent has a Timetwister and I don't, but yes, there probably will be a game or two where it was relevant.

You know how it goes with our man.... you slot him, you're playing Archenemy the remainder of your EDH days, and counterbuilds are going to start showing up if you play your LGS long enough. I had to deslot my Consecrated Sphinx because it was either win-more or a 6 mana dump that was usually answered with 1-2 within 1 player turn... but in some metas this card is completely broken IMO.

How do you win besides the helm/RIP combo? Played this deck a dozen times and I don’t get it. Aura shards is a big problem atm

scapegoat8 you win with Paradox Engine , Sensei's Divining Top , Voltaic Key and/or Rings of Brighthearth , Basalt Monolith , Sensei's Divining Top . I think I might add Staff of Domination as another mana outlet back in because of the pseudo storm option it gives with engine and because I often have loads of mana that could be pumped into it for gas.

Once you can draw any number of cards and have infinite colorless mana you can cast rocks that produce colour, remove all lands, remove all opponents' permanents, drop all taxing spheres, use Tezzeret to kill everyone. That's if the helm/rip combo isn't in the deck anymore at that point. You can also just win with manual beatdown at that point because it's absolutely a hardlock if you have every permanent in your deck in play and have lands/permanents of opponents removed.

How has the Smothering Tithe worked out for you? I have found it is insane for me xD but that is a very, very different deck, combo instead of stax.

SynergyBuild I haven't seen it in play besides goldfishing but it's indeed fulfilling the role of Crucible and it's better at it. With the addition of the 3rd wheel Time Spiral it's a really good way to win as well. You'd just need to wheel and drop Tezzeret...

Being able to break parity on any stax effects just by waiting is also pretty hilarious. I'm looking for a slot to insert staff of domination again now because it would be a fine constant outlet for all the mana I usually get

Can you explain the engine, top, key combo? Doesn’t top go to the top of your deck?

Scapegoat you tap top, in response untap with voltaic key, tap top again, then let the two top activations resolve - you draw an unknown card and top as well. Then cast top, untap all mana rocks with engine, repeat. that way you draw as much of your deck as you want.

Hello Winterblast,

Really enjoyed your take on this deck. Can I ask, how does the deck perform against combo decks? My playgroup has taken up all playing combo decks, and I am looking for something very anti-combo to sake things up a little. Been looking at something like this, or one with Gaddock Teeg at the helm. Care to make a suggestion there? Honestly, I dont even need a win-con in my deck. I would just like to cripple any attempt at going infinite as much as possible

Oh, and +1 :-)

Winther this is specifically against what combo decks typically want to do. If anything, you'd need to change more cards if you didn't face combo but more creature based stax decks for example.

Nice list, upvoting.

According to cards in maybeboard, I suppose it's post-Eldraine revision, which means there should be Arcane Signet autoincluded.. question is if as an addition, or as an substitute (it will be always better Fellwar stone). Midnight Clock looks like interesting card, I'd give it a try.

Only thing I'm surprised by is Sphere of Resistance in maybeboard, this card seems to be way too good with GAAIV to be cut..what was the reason? I didn't find it in changelogs..

vault_cz yes, arcane signet is already in my real deck...I have yet to get dance of the manse and hushbringer, which both seem to be important as well. midnight clock is interesting but there's already little space in the deck, so the question is if there's anything worse to cut? I probably overestimated Flood of Tears because in the games I had it, it either brought me ahead more than I already was, or it sucked because I wasn't enough ahead to profit from the free drop (I think the arcane signet went in for that now). Sphere of resistance got dropped somewhere along the way when more and more one sided stax pieces were printed, for example the statue and dovin...and urza of course...that guy seriously damaged the impact of global +1 taxing because of how fast he can go from low to shittons of mana.

I've tried out a lot of cards in my flex slots and went from steal effects to more mass removal, back and forth. got killed by gilded drakes and urza constructs on the way...at the moment I have Planar Collapse instead of all the steal effects and it seems to be quite nice to have.

If you have any experiences with new cards in a stax build of GAAIV let me hear what you think of them!

How come no Force of Negation?

treytoohottie I'm currently only using the counters that go smoothly through In the Eye of Chaos apart from Force of Will because of how strong that one is. The timing restriction of force of negation would make me choose it even after for example spell pierce and negate.

I notice the guide for running the deck still references paradox engine.

Matticusrex yeah I know...it's easy to keep the list itself updated but I haven't found the time to rewrite the text yet. It's not just changing some cards names but rather a different approach to the gameplay, especially since WAR when some stax effects became one-sided and most global effects could be removed completely.

Would you still consider this deck to be a good competitive build for Grand Arbiter?

Absolutely, now more than before! I think the control-ish variants have suffered a lot more from the engine ban than this build. I basically only had to change a few cards and it wasn't impacted. If anything it became easier to get the painter combo because it's cheaper overall. The deck doesn't have the weird pseudo storm turns anymore but it wasn't really what it was built for anyway, so you came across cards that weren't helpful, when engine enabled such a "play a lot of stuff" turn. Now it's really all about stopping the game and grinding it out. The one thing that gets you into flashy stuff is throwing timetwister/windfall into sphinx and/or smothering tithe. But overall the deck uses better individual cards than an engine build-around, at least that's what I felt after the forced change.

Good to hear, I play tested this a lot on cockatrice and wanted to make sure it had a seal of approval before purchasing a physical version. My friends absolutely hate him but that just makes me enjoy his style more.

I hope you keep updating it as new sets come out, there's not a lot of updated decks for him let alone one of this caliber as he is pretty damn old by now but tier lists still have him in the competitive category.

I think a lot about this commander is just how you play the game, how you can limit other people's resources and force them to spend their limited options on their opponents rather than you or their own gameplan. Of course, sometimes you just don't have the right answer to a threat, but if it's game winning, other people have the same interest in dealing with it. GAAIV as I view him exploits that you assume that the opponents have very powerful decks and actually can do a little bit through all the stax. But they can't do everything, so they must watch each other as well and can't just blow up your stuff and pass. If you play with that as the underlying idea in mind, you will have a great time and you will be able to even create "accidental" locks with the available cards (like land equilibrium/land wipe when there's nothing dangerous already in play or a humility/moat combination while you level up Narset or put a win together with Tezzeret...)

What are your thoughts on Jeweled Lotus? Will you be adding it here?