kengiczar could you explain a bit on why you see Hangarback as such a vital addition to the main board? As I moved the focus of this deck away from counters and creatures, I moved Hangarback to the sideboard to create blocking fodder in the event of playing against a fast aggro deck

I'm definitely open to suggestions, I'm just curious on why you see it as such a beneficial card in the deck.

Hangarback is just pure card advantage. And I do mean CA even though most would say he's only Board Advantage. The reason I say CA is instead of having to throw out four blockers to die to big Eldrazi while you swing in with Ojutai you can just throw out one Hangarback who becomes 4 blockers, or even 5, quite frequently. It saves you from having to use your mana dorks as blocks when you try to race with your Dragon/s.

Hangarback is sort of the antithesis of Goblin Rabblemaster. Rabble helps you get ahead in board state for attacks with the whole team where as Hangarback is used to get ahead on the board so you can defend and safely start swinging with just one big threat.

Consider that Elspeth, Sun's Champion takes 6 mana to make 3 soldiers. Hangarback Walker only takes 4 mana to make 3 1/1 flyers. For 6 mana he's making 5 1/1 flyers. You can cash in whenever you want.

Hangarback Walker is almost as important to midrange decks as Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip is to /X/X or just /X decks.

That's a darn good and thorough answer... sold.

Deck updated.

Why are you running Ojutai's Command? You have 2 hard counters in Cancel and Scatter to the Winds. ! mana less and hit anything.

The_Dark_Adonis The main reason was because it also has the 2nd options... so I could bring back the mana dorks if they died, and can generate card draw or gain life if needed to help stay alive against RDW.

I do like the idea of running Scatter to the Winds instead of Cancel.. I hadn't seen that spoiler yet. Good call there.

I like the concept, I would only suggest a minor detail in adding at least 1 basic Island. Just for those situations when you want to fetch and really need an untapped but dont fulfill the criterias for the new duals.

I ran some test matches vs. my post-Bfz prototype, and ended up in situations where i desperately needed blue mana but only had non-basics on the board and could not fetch untapped blue. Especially when you run cards like Silumgar's Scorn. Having to use double pain to cast it was painful. :)

Good call... I didn't even consider that.

Which land would you recommend removing in place of the Island?

I would say one less Yavimaya Coast. Its the least painful trade, I dont think you will have any trouble finding green sources.

Or maybe in place of a basic Plains, you seem to need basic blue more, any of those anyhow I would say.

I know the above comments made a good case for Hangarback Walkers, which is not hard to do, but how do you feel about Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip instead? I could easily make good cases for Jace because like Hangarback Walker it's just flat out a good card. Keeping with the theme and potential of Retreat to Coralhelm though, you could loot, drop land, and loot again looting several times in one turn flipping him faster.

Also, something that isn't in your description but shouldn't be forgotten is that once you land a powerful dragon Retreat to Coralhelm keeps its value late game by tapping down blockers.

Your right, the sideboard does need work. You have to ask yourself, "what would I bring this in for." For what match would Deathmist Raptor be good against that you don't already have?

Put cards in your sideboard with certain cards or decks in mind like Arashin Cleric against aggro.

More stuff like Valorous Stance would be good too, doubles as protection and removal.

The counters should definitely stay though to protect your stuff if need be.

I'm sure your not new magic so don't take this insultingly or anything. I really like your idea +1! I just want to see it do well.

For the sideboard: Hallowed Moonlight - this card does not get near as much love it deserves, but I always run at least 2 in side if im playing white. It permanently ruins the Deathmist Raptor+Den Protector combo, messes up Collected Company, Rally the Ancestors, any form of graveyard play (unsure how much of that it will be post-Bfz tough).

It even stops your opponents Hangarback Walker as the tokens cant enter. It is a lovely card all for 2 mana + you even get to draw a card. Consider it =D

As long as you have a total of 17+ spells that are pure kill/exile/counter than Jace is very good. (17 is just my personal minimum, he may require more than that to even funciton well once he's flipped.)

Mandalorian I definitely do greatly appreciate all the great advice you and everyone else are giving... I don't take a single bit of it as insulting.

Since I started playing magic, I've always been an aggro player... that's all I've ever done... this is my first big adventure into making a control deck, so I definitely know it needs a bit of work.

With my aggro decks, I can usually beat control players fairly consistantly... and the main logic I put into building this deck was "what would I have hated playing against if I was playing me right now"... and just ran with that.

That's one of the reasons I've been so hesistant to really go with Hangarback Walker... that is usually a deck card played against me... I'm actually usually relieved when I see it played since I know it's not a threat. A Banishing Light or Suspension Field toasts it outright... and a simple Pacifism, Oppressive Rays, or Suppression Bonds can usually nullify it... but the overwhelming support of it in the thread made me eventually bend, and just hope it plays better than it ever did against me..

I actually would probably much prefer to run Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip... probably the only reason I'm not putting it in the deck right now is the steep price tag since currently I own none... personally I'd much rather run that in its place.

kengiczar< hangerback walker or any xx cast cost does not work like that. x can only have one value. so say you pick 3. then xx equals 3+3 for cost and gets 3 counters. so 6 mana gets you a 3/3 and then 3 1/1 flyers. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hangarback+walker

This is what I said "Consider that Elspeth, Sun's Champion takes 6 mana to make 3 soldiers. Hangarback Walker only takes 4 mana to make 3 1/1 flyers. For 6 mana he's making 5 1/1 flyers. You can cash in whenever you want."

Turn 2: Spend to get a 1/1 Hangarback Walker.
Turn 3: Spend to make Hangarback Walker a 2/2.
Turn 4: Spend to make Hangarback Walker a 3/3. Now if your HW dies you've spend a total of for 3 1/1 flyers.
Turn 5: Spend to make Hangarback Walker a 4/4.
Turn 6: Spend to make Hangarback Walker a 5/5. Now if your HW dies on Turn 6, when most decks can cast elspeth, you'll get 5 1/1 flying Thopters.

By "Cash in" I meant "block a big dude to get flyers"

One thing I hadn't really taken into account when I suggested Hangarback Walker was your mana curve. Generally speaking if you pay for him on T2 and your hand looks like the one below, when you were on the play, you're not going to get the most out of him:

Card 1: Land
Card 2: Land
Card 3: Den Protector
Card 4: Ojutai's Command
Card 5: Dragonlord Ojutai

The reason why is because your plan should be T3 face down Den Protector. Notice how you can't then put a counter on Hangarback Walker. Notice how if you play Den Protector face up you're not going to be able to sneak past very many things except for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip and tokens. Turn 4 isn't as bad for hangarback but is almost as bad for Ojutai's Command. If you don't cast the command and haven't drawn another morph you're possibly going to end up with worth of Wasted mana. If you cast the Command for life and a card in order to not "waste" mana then you've now wasted 2 turns worth of value out of Hangarback Walker. You're Turn 5 is pretty asbyismal now because if you don't top deck a land you can't cast the dragon. Having other 2 drops in the deck, which you do have, helps negate a bad T5 and can fix this mana ineficiency on T4.

What I'm getting at is without enough relevant low drops you're going to have wasted value form Hangarback Walker. I hvaen't tested the deck lately but this is something to watch out for. In a format like Modern in a deck like Grixis, not Delve and Not Cruel Control, Hangarback Walker is great because you're sure to be able to afford dedicating to Hangarback Walker each turn. Standard Abzan is also a good home for him because unless they draw 2-3 Siege Rhino it can easily fix it's curve/avoid mana innificiency with Dromoka's Command, Valorous Stance or casting a morph phase up.

Anywho while Hangarback Walker is an amazing card make sure when play testing he works out ALL of the time, not most of the time. If you ever find he doesn't work with your curve you might want to go with your gut and try something else. I'm fairly confident that if you draw lots of 2 drops he's fine and if you draw lots of 4 and 5 drops in opening hand with him he's not going to reach his potential and you may want to consider something else. He's not the kind of card you typically run with 5 drops, though he is one of standards best creatures right now. Best of luck.

Both of you make very, very valid points... and to weigh both sides... I like both.

So to marry the two options, Deathmist Raptor has been removed from the sideboard... Hangarback Walker has been put in its place and increased from 2x to 3x... and 2x Jace have been added to the mainboard (looks like I'm going on tapped out tonight to pick up Jace and another hangarback)

Do u have play if this deck? If u do,please give us a feedback

guilgordo I was able to play a fairly neutered version of this deck for FNM, however I only had about 80% of the deck completed, and played without a sideboard, so I'm unable to give a full report until this next FNM.

From what I noticed so far, the meta this time around has significantly more mana at our disposal. Unfortunately that means cards like Clash of Wills and Silumgar's Scorn (without a dragon in hand) are mostly useless. I've replaced Clash of Wills outright by Scatter to the Winds in the mainboard, and I'm hoping that delivers better results.

I've also discovered that left uncountered, creatures tend to be a big issue for this deck, as until the big dragons arrive, I'm mostly helpless. With only Swift Reckoning in the mainboard, going against creature heavy decks is a struggle. Tragic Arrogance in the sideboard will be helpful... I'm considering swapping out Ojutai Exemplars for either Aligned Hedron Network or Quarantine Field to provide extra removal in the sideboard... and will report back with findings.

Thanks for the feedback bro, isn't better u have black in deck for better creatures control ?

I could... Black definitely does have a much easier time with crowd control, which is why everyone and their brother runs either Esper Control, Mardu Control, Jeskai Black, or Abzan. Seems to be that these days, if you're not either running black or RDW you can't have a viable deck.

With the way the cards played out in BFZ, it seemed that Bant would have a chance at being viable again without having to use any of black's nasty shenanigans.

if u go for red? U gona have huge dragons like Dragonlord Atarka and Harbinger of the Hunt to clean up the board. And u gona have nice spells like Radiant Flames and Rending Volley.

Needs reflector mage :D