Yeah, the more I play this, and draw hands, the more I like Serum Visions here.
I actually needed some more sources to do what I wanted to do with Scooze. So, I've put in 2 Hinterland Harbors, which puts me up to 7 sources. A third Scooze might be a possibility. I was also thinking of putting in a Flooded Grove for a Hinterland Harbor, which may give me more flexibility.
November 13, 2015 1:04 a.m.
Flooded Grove is a solid option, and 1 hinterland harbor is good.
November 13, 2015 8:44 a.m.
Anyone have experience with Dromoka's Command? Not sure if it fits the control theme, but seems interesting. Worth swapping with Bant Charm?
November 15, 2015 3 p.m.
btreuther I assume the main reason you run Bant Charm would be for the Artifact and creature tuck ability. That said, Dromoka's Command does deal with Blood Moon, Twin, and a host of other enchantments while giving you decent coverage against burn.
November 15, 2015 5:08 p.m. Edited.
Thanks DrFunk27 and t3kill for the feedback. Bant Charm, while decent value, will be moved to the SB for now. Dromoka's Command seems to be better value and have more utility. I think I like that better for now. lol
November 15, 2015 11:52 p.m.
This is flat out terrifying omg... I'm glad I saw this so I can prepare for some random rogue list featuring Goyf!
November 16, 2015 5:34 p.m.
I may take a deck very similar to this to the SCGO in Kansas City this weekend. I really love this deck.
November 17, 2015 12:07 a.m.
Thanks Tezzrah! Let me know your decklist and how it does. Have yet to test this against a real meta.
BoCaliv, appreciate the comment! Just trying to get an edge.
November 17, 2015 1:08 a.m. Edited.
@TheAnnihilator - enjoying your comments on other builds, any thoughts on this one? Thanks!
November 18, 2015 1:19 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #12
@btreuther Well, with this particular one I'll have to playtest it a little up on Cockatrice before making any strict judgements. In general, I don't like Ojutai due to it's mana cost and vulnerability (if you're attacking with it, but why play it if you can't atack? To block I guess?) and I'm not sure what I think yet about Tarmogoyf as a control card. However, I want to make sure that I'm not just biased, and I need to see if the number of creatures you already play makes Ojutai better here by overloading the opponent's removal.
However, I can already say 3x Snapcaster Mage is far too many, since you have very few spells you actually want to flashback. I'd play a solid 2.
November 18, 2015 10:34 a.m.
@TheAnnihilator. Thanks for the feedback, and let me know how your playtesting goes. I still have to get on Cockatrice to test it myself (beyond the little bit I have in real life). What's the site and how do I access the cards?
Dragonlord Ojutai has done pretty well in the few matches I've played and had him out, and he's a superstar with Minamo, School at Water's Edge. Longer matches have a chance of getting this set-up.
Any thoughts on what to replace the Snapcaster Mage with?
November 18, 2015 12:21 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #14
@btreuther You can download the setup for Cockatrice at Woogerworks (linky link). You'll want to register an account with Woogerworks too (don't worry, its free) so that you have access to account deck-storage and game replays.
What to replace Snappy with? How about a 5th Goyf? :P
But seriously, maybe a 3rd Mana Leak? I feel like it could help both the control and the tempo plan (aka, slam Goyf and attack with mana up to counter all of the spells).
November 18, 2015 2:28 p.m.
Cool, thanks TheAnnihilator.
Speaking of the 5th goyf, there is always Phantasmal Image...
Mana Leak seems decent here, also considering a third Remand.
November 18, 2015 3:43 p.m.
@DrFunk27, sounds like it could be fun!
With some of the adjustments I've made, I'm considering taking out Restoration Angel. I really like this card, and she is really good in UW midrange decks, but I'm not sure she fits any more. Yes, she's a great beater and she can come down at instant speed, but with only 2 snappys and 1 clique, not sure I am utilizing her to the best of her ability. Plus, with 4cmc, I can't buy her back with Ojutai's Command like I can the goyfs, scoozes, and snappys. Thinking the spots might be better filled with more countermagic or utility spells or perhaps Supreme Verdict. Thoughts?
November 18, 2015 8:48 p.m. Edited.
I like adding Verdict or Wrath of God. Definitely. What I like about Impersanator btw, is that you can copy other planewalkers or whatever.
November 18, 2015 8:50 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #19
PLAYTESTING. OK.
I'm ok with Resto. She's a little weird, since we aren't using the card for ETB value. BUT, Resto lets you hold up mana. It's pretty sweet.
Goyf was great. Like, really good. Like, this is a control deck that can race, which I like. I'm not sure, however, that I like Dragonlord Ojutai. I got to play it once, and the guy was at exactly 5 against an active Colonnade too. Otherwise, I don't feel like you rally wanna tap out for Ojutai. Like, I almost never T2ed Goyf, and it always worked out better than if I had.
The one Dromoka's Command seemed weird to me, but it's fine. Nice out to Blood Moon/Eidolon of the Great Revel, and cute interactions w/ Goyf, Snaps, and Colonnade.
I only saw D-Sphere once, and it 2-1ed my opponent. Other than that, I'm not so sure you need both. Maybe cut one for a 3rd Remand?
Oh, and I actually just thought of what Ojutai should be... Sigarda, Host of Herons. Card is great, and would have won any of the games I resolve it in. About counters, this deck is great at baiting out counters and simply wasting them via Snares and Remanding your own spells. So, I think you could get Sigarda to resolve pretty easily.
Clique is a little slow, but not necessarily bad. One might be fine, and you can always board it out against fast matchups.
November 18, 2015 10:54 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #20
Oh, and I really think the 2 Ojutai's commands should be 2 more Cryptics. They're like Cryptics, but less useful.
Also consider adding a few Stirring Wildwood.
November 18, 2015 10:56 p.m.
@TheAnnihilater, awesome, thanks for the feedback. What was your match ups and what kind of decks did you face? Favorable vs. unfavorable?
That's one reason why Restoration Angel is good in control: flash, flyer, and a decent body. She can pressure mid game in a different way than goyf
Sigarda, Host of Herons is intriguing, and I may swap out one of the ojutais for her and try her out.
Dromoka's Command was added because of those cute interactions, which I switched out for Bant Charm
Ojutai's Command, has been useful in buying back goyfs for me. Did that not happen for you?
How was Scavenging Ooze?
Was there anything in your matchups you wish you had? A sweeper?
November 18, 2015 11:27 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #22
So I tested only a few games (I didn't have much time) against a Grixis Delver and a UR Delver list, as well as a sortof janky Esper Spirits list. I won every game; even some where I was sure I'd lose, but then played very precisely to my outs, maximizing more draw steps, and the deck smoothed everything out for me. Grixis was defnitely the hardest matchup.
Sweepers are awkward in this list because they wipe your board too. There are times when Sweepers would have been the worst, when they'd be the best, and when they're just "eh". With a few edits, maybe some mainboard Kitchen Finks or something, to keep advantage after sweeping maybe they'd be fine. As of right now, they are really awkward and crowd the 4-mana slot, so I wouldn't include them.
ScOoze was interesting, and seemed like it's somewhat matchup dependant. Against the decks I faced, creatures were a common graveyard item and ScOoze also could have blanked Snappy targets/screw with delve, so +1 there. They're great late game, but not early. 2 is prolly fine to be playing, since it has relevant application against most any opponent.
I loved the 2 mana counters here, both of them. Mostly Mana Leak was better, but Remand was useful too. So another Leak would be great.
The deck felt absurd when my plan was eot Path with counter backup, untap --> Goyf with counterbackup. It's just such a tempo swing, and you have extra resources if you don't actually have to use the counters.
November 18, 2015 11:42 p.m.
@TheAnnihilator, alright, made some changes. Grixis is actually one of the decks I wanted to playtest. That and Tron.
-1 Ojutai's Command - leaving 1x in MB for goyf, scooze, and snappy buyback
-1 Detention Sphere - leaving 1x in MB
-1 Dragonlord Ojutai - Leaving 1x in MB
+1 Cryptic Command - bringing total to 3x
+1 Remand - total 3x
+1 Mana Leak - total 3x (replaces snappy from before)
+1 Sigarda, Host of Herons - total 1x
Seem reasonable? Anything else?
November 19, 2015 12:48 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #24
Not in the mainboard. However, the sidboard:
-1x Disenchant, -1x Bant Charm --> +2x Supreme Verdict
I'm not sold on the Aven Mindcensors either... What do they come in against? Bloom Titan, that's it? I think a 3rd Kitchen Finks is a very strong inclusion, and then maybe a Wrath of God, an Engineered Explosives, or the 4th Finks (because screw you, Burn).
To be honest, you can't get enough Finks. Burn scoops to it (no joke, I had a burn opponent scoop to 2 resolved Finks), control sides out removal so Finks is great there, and it helps to buy time against BGx. IMO, it's one of the best sideboard cards Bant has to offer. I've even been considering using them in Esper.
November 19, 2015 9:07 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #25
Oh, and I just realized that "Finks in the sideboard" is a great argument for why you should still run Resto.
slasherturtle says... #1
Serum Visions is probably the best blue card in modern. Every deck that I've planned to play with in a tournament has had a playset if it ran blue, it's one of the best things you could play on turn one, to make goyf bigger you could thought scour yourself, get the additional strength for a turn 2 goyf to be out of bolt range.
November 12, 2015 5:39 p.m.