+1 I like this build, in my limited time playing the first thing I tend to look at is mana base. This deck only has two colors, so I don't really see a need for Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds. Easily swapped out for Temple of Plenty or Saltcrusted Steppe. I'd also even out the basic lands due to consistency sake. Just my 2 cents, good luck!

XsimonX16 this deck has a landfall subtheme, so extra land drops are always nice! I can easily add in the two lands you suggested. Thanks for the suggestions and upvote!

A couple of things, (ill asume fair budget)

Any consideration to eternal witness, early harvest and triumph of the hordes? Fauna Shaman and Chord of Calling might be a cheaper alternative to survival of the fittest if tutoring seems necessary.

chaosumbreon87 You are correct, about the fair budget haha. I'll consider Triumph of the Hordes and Early Harvest, I'm more hesitant with non-permanent spells because of Primal Surge's value becoming diluted. I'll add in Chord of Calling and/or Fauna Shaman if I get either of the two, I think the former might be going into another deck haha.

Aaaah, forgot to add, thanks for the suggestions!

Fecundity is a good hug card and more card draw is always nice. I see a distinct lack of ways to handle an overwhelming board. It would be nice not to need to board wipe but I'd recommend having ~4 in a hug deck. You are helping your opponents and you want a chance at winning so it'd be nice to set people back easily.

Bhaal666 I think Fecundity seems like an interesting card, and I'll consider it. The only reason I'm hesitant is because there's not much sacrifice or creatures dying on my side, and I prefer group hug effects that benefit me most.

Since there is so much mana being generated, I think I could run some one-sided boardwipes if they exist in white.

Thanks for the suggestion and advice!

Mass Calcify works if white isn't too common at your table, will still hurt you a bit but not near as bad as Wrath of God. Austere Command a bit $ but useful. Mageta the Lion he lives through it, if you give him vigilance you can attack then wipe before blocks. I'll try to come up with some other things later.

I think Mass Calcify would work, my usual playgroup consists of Freyalise, Yidris, Aurelia, Meren, and Teysa (the Dragon's Maze one). This deck does create a lot of green tokens, but I'll consider adding it in. Thanks for the suggestion!

Why are there non-permenant spells in this deck? You shouldn't have stop conditions as it promotes inconsistently in the deck. After flipping your deck, you should be winning by giving your creatures haste with Akroma's Memorial/Concordant Crossroads and pumping your creatures with Pathbreaker Ibex/Craterhoof Behemoth.

JaceTheSwagSculptor I used Primal Surge in the deck as-is as more of a fun card, since I made this deck to be more casual. Craterhoof Behemoth and Akroma's Memorial are a tad out of my budget at the moment for the dedicated Primal Surge route. I included Odric, Lunarch Marshal, and I was planning on adding Beastcaller Savant and Swiftfoot Boots to give all my creatures haste. I will not have to worry about opponents' cards, since once I flip my deck, it's quite hard to interact with my board. I will consider Pathbreaker Ibex as a pump creature, however. Thank so for the input!

Whoa! I didn't even realize this was your deck Triton lol. Probably just go with Crossroads and Ibex then as they will guarantee you a kill if you Primal Surge. I get the casual aspect, but having a 10 mana sorcery as a win-con is in itself casual. 10 mana for the potential of little to no cards is not favorable.

Regarding Odric, you probably don't want to be using cute two card interactions. Just rely on more reliable, self-sustaining options like Concordant Crossroads.

Beastcaller Savant is pretty underwhelming. It's 2 mana for one mana that has a restriction. If you want ramp at 2, then Sylvan Caryatid is a way better option.

Primordial Sage gives you a second Soul of the Harvest effect.

JaceTheSwagSculptor small world hahaha. Well, not exactly world, but I think you get me lol.

I can probably take out Primal Surge for another boardwipe, or even better, Genesis Wave. It's a matter of getting the latter haha. Odric has been more of a fun card too, and I enjoy having an army of flying, indestructible dudes alongside haste lol. Crossroads would definitely be the superior choice, however. :)

Primordial Sage a really nice effect, too! I haven't run into problems with card draw except during the very early game, but good to know in case I find card draw lacking. :) Thanks for the input and suggestions!

Agreed! Hopefully I can be of some help with this deck too!

I made suggestions thinking we were optimizing for Surge, but if you want to take it out and just make it G/W good stuff then that's your perogative. G/W good stuff with Genesis Wave requires different suggestions than building around Primal Surge.

Either way you go, I like the elf sub theme you have going on. It's definitely one of the strongest ramp engines for EDH. Since you have a fair amount of elves, Elvish Archdruid, Priest of Titania, and Wirewood Symbiote might be worth testing. Not to mention they go very well with the creature draw engines you have (I.e. Soul of the Harvest/Primordial Sage).

As for the top end, I suggest overrun effects, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Void Winnower, and Pathbreaker Ibex.

Swaps I would suggest:

• Primal Surge -> Genesis Wave

• Whitemane Lion -> Wall of Omens

• Whisperer of the Wilds -> Priest of Titania

• Wayfarer's Bauble -> Wirewood Symbiote

• Retreat to Emeria -> Elvish Archdruid

• Dictate of Karametra -> Pathbreaker Ibex

• Admonition Angel -> Primordial Sage

• Fumigate -> Iona, Shield of Emeria

• Ghirapur Orrery -> Void Winnower

I made sure all the cards I suggested are under $10. I hope was able to help!

I disagree with Jace heavily, on basically all points.

That said, I am not a fan of Archetype of Endurance, Thalia's Lancers, Undergrowth Champion or Odric, Lunarch Marshal. I just think they are a big lack luster, with what you have going on.

I know it is a group hug as well, but Dictate of Karametra should probably also be Mirari's Wake. Group hug is fine but don't let people double their mana. That is when bad shit happens.

Green Sun's Zenith fetches most of your creatures, and can replace Thalia's Lancers (only doesn't hit Odric and Elesh and you can tweak around them).

Grasp of Fate can generally just be a better O-ring? You aren't really abusing it after all.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer  ^Flip is a decent enough value engine in this sort of deck.

Fleetfoot Panther is also worth a look as another way to abuse Karametra's effect.

Feel free to disagree with me, but you shouldn't directly call out and discount someone's advice without explaining. To my knowledge all of the cards I suggested are viable budget options that interact well with the deck owner's strategy.

I'm open to discussion, but not baseless one's.

However, regardless of what either of us think Triton will have the final say.

LeaPlath I do honestly agree the four aforementioned cards are rather lackluster for this deck, they are mainly just pet cards to me and I enjoy playing them. I definitely agree to taking out Lancers, as there are only 4 legendaries. I included them when I had 5 originally but I couldn't get ahold of Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. They may come back in if I can acquire any more legendary cards, so they'll take a seat at the bench for now.

I would honestly rather run Mirari's Wake over the Dictate, but it's just a matter of affording the card. Grasp of Fate would be a better card indeed, and I really want to get ahold of a Nissa, Vastwood Seer  ^Flip for another deck, maybe I'll wind up getting two down the road haha. I actually wanted to add in Fleetfoot Panther earlier on and forgot about it, I'll find a place to add it in.

JaceTheSwagSculptor I kinda just realized the elves running around in this deck, I think Elvish Harbinger would fit in here just as well since it can search for the elves I need, if I decided to go with the elf subtheme. For the top-end creatures, the only one that I may be a bit iffy on is Iona, but the rest I will consider for sure. As for cuts, I do agree Wayfarer's Bauble and Retreat to Emeria are rather lackluster in this deck, to say the least. Those will most likely be cut first, probably along with Zendikar's Roil since the tokens aren't really that impactful unless I have Overwhelming Stampede and the like. Overall as mentioned above, the main constraint I have is how easily I can acquire the cards haha.

Thanks for all the suggestions and input!

JaceTheSwagSculptor Whitemane Lion is an engine in this deck, being a 2 mana instant that with your commander lets you chain lands out of your deck.

There are 8 elves in this deck, and unless you go full elf ball I am not a fan of small mana dorks in EDH as they tend to be too low impact. And this deck specifically can use lands for a draw, and buffing engine. They will generally be tapping for 1-2 mana, and there are better options then.

Iona is just unfun and is not a card I think anyone should be running in EDH, due to how it effects the game.

Retreat to Emeria gives you a way to get tokens from your lands which is needed to make a lot of the cards, such as the overrun effects or team buffs useful.

The only card I think is worth including you suggested is Pathbreaker Ibex but that only works if you keep the token stuff you suggested dropping.

Triton Also Avenger of Zendikar seems a pretty sweet include, simply as a way to go wide. Hallowed Ground might be an include if you feel like giving more support to a land engine, but then you probably want Oracle of Mul Daya and Vizier of the Menagerie type effects too.

Storm Cauldron is also kind of a pet card in Karametra, because it acts as group hug, group slug and generally an engine if you want to abuse landfall type effects.

Karoo and Jungle Basin are also pretty sweet.

Another alternative for O-Ring is Quarantine Field if you are ramping hard.

@LeaPlath: That's what I was looking for, thank you.

Getting back on topic. Regarding Iona and Winnower, Triton will decide based on his meta whether these "unfun" card is fit for his purpose.

Retreat to Emeria is incredibly slow at four mana and does nothing to impact the board when it comes down. Additionally, it requires one to constantly hit land drops to do anything and even at that your just making 1/1's. If this isn't the definition of lackluster then idk what is.

Regarding Whitemane Lion. Thank you for calling me out on that. I definitely misread the card and did not realize it could bounce itself.

Regarding the Elves, I don't think you always need to go elfball for running elves to be effective. I said they are one of the most impactful early game ramp engines and I stand by that. Elves come down early, generate mana, trigger Karametra, and contribute towards creature count which are all things he is looking for. Even if he is only running 8 like you said, it takes little effort to adjust this.

LeaPlath I do agree with the additional elf support, as the main reason I use them is to ramp for Karametra early game, or with Selvala, provide group hug effects. Mid- to late-game, they are easy-to-cast enablers for Karametra's ability. Avenger of Zendikar is amazing for this deck, it's just I'm using my current one for another deck so if I can get another, I will add him to this deck for sure.

As for Iona, I may consider her as a necessary evil depending on the game, eg toolboxing her out if I dislike an opponent (it's something I do during EDH games haha). There's 2 cards that I can potentially use to tutor her out. Same thing goes with Void Winnower.

I would include more of a landfall engine, if it weren't for one of my other decks being landfall too, as I enjoy diversity in my EDH decks.

Quarantine Field I'll consider as an alternative to O-Ring. I may consider Grasp of Fate over it primarily because it has the potential to fizzle if I were to hit it with Genesis Wave and/or Genesis Hydra.

Thanks for all the suggestions and input!

This decks looks way fun, and I love the description!

darkshadow it's a fun deck to play! Thanks for the upvote and kinda words!

I really like the deck, perhaps Primal Surge considering you only have 7 non-permanents in the deck, or maybe Rishkar's Expertise for some amazing draw!