Thank you for the suggestions. I added a Stax section in the maybeboard for people who want to go for a more staxy version of the deck. The only cards I don't really agree with are No Mercy because it kills off Belzenlok, making it harder to Dread Return , and Nether Void because we lock ourselves out of the game specially because we are not running ramp cards like Sol Ring .
April 23, 2019 10:01 a.m.
CyborgAeon says... #3
I like to think of nether void as the old "somebody else's problem". While you build up your own game plan, you put great pressure on most other decks by dropping this. But you make a convincing argument- it's too parallel.
A list of all cards I know you could run: Avatar of Woe Curtains' Call Dross Golem Infernal Darkness
These are uhh... suboptimal. But avatar at least offers decent removal. I have to ask, what meta do you play this in?
April 23, 2019 1:20 p.m.
To be honest I have only played it online (on mtgo) so far, where I win very very consistently. However this is mostly due to people not knowing what the deck does and ignoring you entirely, and the power-level in mtgo games being extremely skewed. I have bought the deck on paper and plan to play it in a high-power/cEDH environment, I believe the deck will perform decently because in my opinion, a consistent turn 4 deck is almost cEDH viable.
April 25, 2019 3:36 p.m.
Hey! I love this deck so much, and I think it's definitely cEDH viable. I've been playing with it non stop and I haven't lost a game with it. I definitely think it could use some improvements though. I've been researching some possible ideas for the deck, but I've only come across a couple of ideas. I think Chancellor of the Dross might have a place in this deck. It gives a good amount of life gain right off the start, just in case of a super fast deck like the new Krenko. Another good card idea would be Dross Golem. If you got kind of unlucky with your land draws and you have at least 5 swamps, you can play this guy for free. This would work pretty well in the combo as an alternate just in case something gets countered. Leyline of the Void could also be a nice addition to the deck. You can cast it for free if it's in ur starting hand and it shuts off a lot of decks. Something that you could do just in case Triskelion/Mikeaeus gets killed/exiled would be nice. Like some kind of outlet or card that gives you an advanteg of having a big hand. Like Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Solemn Simulacrum could also be a good card to add the the deck, as it ramps you, though you might want to be careful with it, because it it dies you will draw a card with no cards in your library and lose. A discard outlet besides skirge familiar could be useful as well. Erebos' Emissionary is a good card for this. Skriekmaw is also a really good card in this deck because its cmc is 5 and you can evoke it for 2. Finally I think Crypt ghast should be in the main deck because you can play it on 4 mana and play belzenlok the next turn.
May 17, 2019 7:37 p.m.
Thank you for your comments! I added some of your suggestions. I highly recommend you check the maybeboard it has a lot of cards that could fit in the deck depending on your meta, playstyle and how much damage you are willing to take from Demonlord Belzenlok .
ShinyZ, in regards to protection for Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion from exile cards such as Path to Exile you can always Soul Spike + 1 dmg with Triskelion to kill Mikaeus, the Unhallowed in response and then cast Living Death . However if in your meta you still have problems keeping your combo online, you can always have alternative combos such as Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond or Lich + Repay in Kind . In regards to Solemn Simulacrum I think there are simply better ramp cards (check the ramp section in the maybeboard, I think I have most of the 4 cmc ramp cards).
May 20, 2019 12:06 p.m.
Just wanna comment that I freaking love innovative brews like this. +1 from me!
October 12, 2019 12:38 p.m.
skeletor984 says... #9
How do you not die to the commanders draw trigger?
October 14, 2019 4:27 p.m.
You usually just take the damage, as long as you have more than 24 life. If you have less than 24 then you can have Glacial Chasm , Whip of Erebos , Deadly Wanderings or Homicidal Seclusion in play to prevent the damage from Belzenlok.
October 14, 2019 8:04 p.m.
BeYourGuard says... #11
Have you considered playing a torment of hailfire as an alternate win con once the skirge is in play it seems you effectively have as much black mana as cards in hand, gives another outlet in the case mike and trike don’t work out the first go round as well.. I really like this deck great stuff!
October 17, 2019 1:21 a.m.
BeYourGuard From my experience, if people let Skirge Familiar resolve it means they don't have anything to stop the combo (most people won't let you put a creature on the board that gives you access to ~15 mana with tutored cards in hand).
After Skirge Familiar hits the board multiple interactions are needed to stop you, since you have the resources and mana to do two revivals of the duo. Even exile spells can be responded to because you can simply kill Mikaeus, the Unhallowed in response, then revive again. The only effect I can think of from the top of my head that can't be responded is instant speed graveyard interaction, then again, that would target Skirge Familiar 's revival with Dread Return also.
If you are interested in other combos that you can check the "alternative combo pieces" in the maybe board.
October 17, 2019 7:14 p.m.
BeYourGuard says... #14
I realized the CMC of Hailfire almost immediately after posting, but I wanted to let you know I just sleeved up your list and am taking it to my LGS commander night this week, decks a blast to play!
October 26, 2019 7:13 p.m.
I love this list and want to attempt to make a $50 version for a challenge my friends and I are doing. Aside from the necessary combo pieces, what would you put in for maximum resilience? I would probably start with doing all basic swamps except for some very cheap utility lands. Are there any other combos besides mike and trike?
December 11, 2019 6:14 a.m.
Also how does the deck beat a well time counterspell?
December 11, 2019 6:24 a.m.
Lord0fHam Regarding your 1st question, there are two more combo finishers besides Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion . They are listed in the Maybeboard ( Repay in Kind + Lich or Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood + Soul Spike ). Although these combos are not graveyard based per se, they are very mana intensive and Skirge Familiar is pretty much mandatory to execute them. The Main combo line requires Skirge Familiar to be revived with Dread Return so it's hard to avoid being graveyard dependent. I think Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion is the most resilient of the combos since multiple cards can execute the combo in case you get countered ( Ever After , Living Death , or even Twilight's Call ).
Regarding you second question the deck doesn't have a good way to protect itself from being interrupted (due to being mono black and having the 4cmc+ condition). That being said, there are two scenarios
-Interruption before Belz's ETB: simply ramp until 8 and try again...
-Interruption after Belz's ETB: Discarding Dread provides you multiple chances to revive the duo in the following turns. Basically you can attempt a win one per turn for the following 2 turns (sometimes even more because Ever After goes to the top of your library if it resolves..) More details are given at the end of the "combo" section of the primer.
Finally, there is Geode Golem , which allows you to pay for Skirge Familiar directly, if interrupted, simply do the main combo line.
December 11, 2019 12:31 p.m.
Thanks for the response. Are there any cheap card replacements you'd make for non-necessary pieces so that I can attempt this on $50? I think the main pieces add up to about $40 lol. I want to make sure I have enough cards in hand for all the discard related things.
December 11, 2019 11:37 p.m.
A month ago I went through all the ~2000 cards that are playable in the deck. I added the relevant ones to the maybeboard. Most suggestions should be there.
For your particular budget constraint I would consider running artifact ramp ( for example Hedron Archive ), since you are probably lacking ramp lands and aiming a turn 5 kill is much more realistic.
December 12, 2019 10:32 a.m.
Lucivarian says... #21
Hey, I've been following this list for a while now, always thought it was really cool and finally think I'm gonna build it. I have a few questions though. Why not run more ramp artifacts? Are you just trying to mitigate damage? Also, I think Crystalline Crawler might be cool ramp card suggestion that you've missed.
December 14, 2019 8:19 a.m.
Lucivarian First of all thank you for taking an interest in the deck. I don’t run artifact ramp because the deck is consistent at going off turn 4 without them. In fact, they are useful only in combination with some lands (for example Ancient Tomb ) to aid in the turn 4 kill goal.
That being said there are some advantages in running them, it allows for some turn 3 kills with god hands and it also allows for easier recasting of Belzenlok if it gets countered. I’d say try them out and see if you like them.
Btw I did miss Crystalline Crawler thank you for the catch!
December 14, 2019 10:44 p.m.
CyborgAeon says... #23
Don't forget to find room in your manabase for Castle Locthwain - even if it hits you for 5 for two turns in a row - it helps you to recover greatly!
December 17, 2019 4:37 a.m.
CyborgAeon I'm not a fan of Castle Locthwain because the deck uses life as a resource. There is some utility to it in the right conditions so I'll add it to the maybeboard. Thank you for the suggestion!
December 17, 2019 11:19 a.m.
Pseudo-ception says... #25
Literally just got most of the cards in the mail today, then I see there is an update, haha. I'll probably have to stick with the old combo for now until I can snag a Skittles. The resilience of the new line looks great though!
CyborgAeon says... #1
First off I want to say: I love the deck. Nice one, yo.
I feel like Dread is just asking to get cut. As a 6-mana card that stops you being milled to death it certainly doesn't do a lot. Surely you're better off running No Mercy or a wipe over this?
Some spice you could consider is: The Abyss / Nether Void both are the same mana and are exceptional at shutting off cedh decks. Smokestack effects aren't strong enough. But these make the game nigh unplayable.
Not the best suggestion. But an option could be Ob Nixilis, Unshackled as an option to slide under the radar. I also find Erebos, God of the Dead does well in Aetherflux Reservoir metas, as it's indestructible - so it nearly always needs to be bounced. Furthermore it draws cards... what more could you want?
Lastly I'm certain that you could run naus in here. The number of times you'd die to it would probably be reasonable, as it's just a second copy of belzenlok.
April 20, 2019 7:20 p.m.