More colours can always add a layer of inconsistency. I can't speak from game experience with Kenrith but I have seen a lot of Kenrith decks and have playerd Thrasios/Tymna and I do notice being a 4 coloured deck at times. So I can only imagine having a 5th colour.

I think it depends on teh kind of Kenrith deck you're playing as well. I have seen a few lists running the Thassa's Oracle / Demonic Consultation lines so they (in theory) should be as fast as any other deck. But I have also seen a few more midrange lists, which I would assume are playing in the turn 6-8ish range.

@Blacandrin: It looks like you've played against weak Kenrith decks so far (or your opponents were just unlucky). Because there are about 10 000+ different good Kenrith decks out there. A 5 color deck can be more inconsistent than a monocolored deck, but in cEDH it is partly the other way around, since the budget is often irrelevant. If a 5 colored deck has a perfect manabase and pretty much every playable tutor, then you just have to choose one of the different wincons and win with it. The most common ones at the moment are of course consultation / oracle and underworld breach lines. In kenrith there are no limits, and kenrith itself is a wincon (which means infinite mana = win), too. If you are interested, just have a look at the cEDH database and look at all the different 5 color top tier decks ;)

@ Commander_JAR: We've thought alot about Svella, Ice Shaper , but we've come to the conclusion that it's a solid card, but a bit overrated and that there are a lot of better gruul commanders out there. However, he would be one of the better casual commanders, the troll is probably even at the lower end of high power as you say. Let's see, maybe it will be pushed to high power in the upcoming updates because he has the necessary properties/stats.

I think Yuriko should be A- tier because it is such a good grouphug commander to build around.

strange list, dont agree with some things

RobertoSjaa: Group Hug is bad in competitive. It's pretty bad in casual too. But Yukriko isn't a group hug commander. And while she's good, she doesn't live in the same space as commanders like Thrasios, Triton Hero or Najeela, the Blade-Blossom . I get that you have a Yuriko deck listed on your account and I have see na lot of comments on lists like these that effectively boil down to "I run commander XYZ and they're really good so they should be in the top bracket" but unfortuately that's not a good argument since its pretty subjective (and generally introduces a bunch of bias).

casual_competitive: That's a pretty white noise comment you got there, care to expand?

!!! TIER LIST UPDATED !!!

@Rivrek: All Kaldheim Commanders should be added now, if someone is missing please tell us!

@Eisenherz: Thanks for your comment :) Grenzo moved up!

@Meessee: Yes this looks really spicy and fun! I love the flavour between Krark and his thumbs :D Thanks for sharing. How's the list performing?

@DasTree: there are a lot of cool possible combinations with Sakashima. I think the strongest atm should be Sakashima + Tymna the Weaver (Stax) but the cooler combination which I would prefer is Sakashima + Vial Smasher the Fierce . Another fun way can be the copy route. Meessee even posted a list for Sakashima + Krark in a few comments above yours.

@enpc: Thank you very much, I 100% agree.

@smilodex "And thanks for the reminder, we added Liesa, Shroud of Dusk , Thalisse, Reverent Medium and some new Kaldheim commanders."

I can't seem to find neither Liesa nor Thalisse on the list. Are you sure that you saved it?

@Sephyrias: Crazy... Yes you're right. Thanks again for mentioning again. Now I added them again...

enpc What i meant to say was that Yuriko is group slug. It is dominating in my playgroup were people is playing with commanders listed in B-tier in your deck- list. That is why i thought Yuriko would be more fitting in A-tier. And your assumtion that " I have seen a lot of comments on lists like these that effectively boil down to "I run commander XYZ and they're really good so they should be in the top bracket" but unfortuately that's not a good argument since its pretty subjective (and generally introduces a bunch of bias)" is false! I built a Yuriko deck because i thought it was a fun idea, not because I thought it was broken (even though it turned out to be dominating). I have seen a lot of other decks built around commanders rated top bracket in your listing and practically they would be "fair", or even underdogs against a well built Yuriko deck.

At the second sentance i ment to say "My Yuriko deck is" Instead of "It is dominating". To clear that up. And as you might have noticed on my profile, my Yuriko deck is very budget.

To give an example enpc, My budget Yuriko brew has often dealt up to 12 damage to each opponent turn two. The other commanders ratet top tier in your listing couldn't do that.

RobertoSjaa: Twelve damage turn 2 means that you ripped one high CMC card from the top of your deck after you ninjutsu'd Yuriko in (and looking at your decklist - and I mean no offense to it - that's hitting the most expensive card in your deck at 11 mana). The problem is that while you can do some decent damage, basically all of the decks in the titan class are designed to be able to combo off before you can connect enough damage to kill them. While this is talking about optimum play, the average CMC of your list sits at about 3.5 so hitting people for 12 damge on turn two is good, but unlikely (statisitcally).

Because Yuriko decks are designed to hit extra turn spells and then chain them together, there is a lot more momentum required for the deck to hit critical mass. The problem with decks like Thrasios or Kenrith is that most of them are designed to slam Thassa's Oracle or generate infinite mana (potentially off 2 cards) which is just a straight up win. And somebody winning on one life is the same as winning on 40 life. Unfortunately "almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

The fedback I'm providing is also not just my opinion but the cEDH community at large. There's a reason most people consider Thrasios/Tymna as the boogeyman and unfortunately Yuriko just doesn't stand up to that.

None of this is to say that Yuriko isn't good. There's a reason that she's ranked as highly as she is in most lists. And most of the time there's not a huge gap between the pinnacle commanders and the next step down. But unfortunatety still all the evidence is your opinion based around your deck. The problem is that it's still subjective, whereas most of the commanders in the the A tier (btw, this isn't my list, just one of the ranking lists out there) are ranked because of a lot of evidence from a lot of players across the community.

If you're determined to get Yuriko recognised as on the same level as the tier A commanders, the best thing you can do is gathering evidence (via actual game data) to change people's minds.

I see your point, but for a Thassa's Oracle dect to achive iffinite mana you depend on other spesific cards, Yuriko does not have that problem as you can hit a Temporal Trespass turn two and the next turn brainstorm, then doing as much damage again. Other ways Yuriko consistantly can deal damage is by having enough top-deck management to deal even more damage. And with unbockable creatures you can cheat out more ninjas which oviously benefits you. Even though it is clear we have different oppinions, I still think it is fun to have a discussion on the matter. :)

This list is compiled from a competitive point of view and in the upper tiers we compare the cEDH variants of the respective decks and here Yuriko often serves as a strong value engine (like Edric or Tymna for example). In contrast to Thrasios, Kenrith or Najeela, Yuriko isn't a direct wincon with which you can win in the first two rounds. Yuriko is simply very strong by nature, because you don't really have to pay command tax at all, which makes it difficult to interact with her. She also deals damage to every opponent AND you still draw many cards. BUT on the other side you can shut Yuriko out of the game if somebody get a Cursed Totem , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Pithing Needle / Phyrexian Revoker or a Containment Priest on the board. If that happens, all of a sudden the deck is stuck with a lot of expensive spells and pretty useless ninjas.

I cannot find Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider on your list. Which honestly I see as casual because I don't know if counter decks are powerful enough. That being said, having access to Ugin is nothing to sneeze at.

question:

I've been working on a Tana/Tymna partner deck. (still trying to figure out a consistent strategy...so far Pod with tokens and minimal stax....might take out stax) Anyways, I don't quite get the use of Tymna the Weaver . Is it just color advantage? If so, why not Ravos, Soultender ? Even if card advantage, you have to get on turn 4 to attack and by then, the opponent(s) will have at least one blocker.

Thank you very much community. I think that at one point the save process failed during the Kaldheim Update and therefore some commanders are still missing.

@Commander_JAR: Yes, your assessment is correct. We came to the same conclusion, besides it costs 6 mana and there are cheaper strong green +1/+1 counter matter commanders. It's an excellent choice for the 99, in decks like Fynn, the Fangbearer , Hamza, Guardian of Arashin , Atraxa, Praetors' Voice or Roalesk, Apex Hybrid etc.

I'm not a Blood/Meta Pod specialist but Tymna is much stronger than Ravos, because she's cheaper and can draw 3 cards per turn, where Ravos isn't bad at all, but he needs to stick atleast one turn on the board, to have an effect, where Tymna can draw you cards immediately when you already have creatures on the board. But visit the Blood Pod Discord or the primers on the cEDH database for more infos.

Commander_JAR: Most cEDH decks that aren't based around beats (i.e. stuff like Najeela) are pretty creature light. Or the creatures you're playing against are typically mana dorks that people don't want to just chump block with. So Tymna is able to generate card advantage off of Tana (who can also just roll over 1/1 chump blockers). In addition, Tymna's lifelink is nothing to scoff at.

The problem with Ravos is that he costs 5 mana (you should be doing something strong with 5 mana) and then he takes an entire turn to do anything. In addition to that, cEDH removal is typically cards that either bounce to hand or straight up exile, so he doesn't generate any value there.

In more casual or more creature heavy settings you do have to work harder to get card advantgae off Tymna. But one of the things that Tana stax brings to the table is that she helps clear the board of creatures to let you connect unhindered.

If you didn't want to go down the stax route, you could always look at adding cards like Spirit Mantle to the deck, which lets Tana connect more consistently which then in turn helps you draw cards. Also (and it is a casual deck but) Sublime Archangel can be a bit of an MVP with Tana, especially if you have a few saprolings/dorks down already.

Could Vela the Night-Clad have "Tier 3: High Power" potential? She wins the game pretty easily with the Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Cackling Counterpart combo.

That Vela costs 6 definitely keeps her out of "Tier 2: Fringe Competetive", but that she is a win-con in the command zone for multiple combo types seems decent.

Why is Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger in casual though? I mean, eight man, tall order, sure....but....LOOK AT THAT EFFECT! AND It's green! A good green deck should get it out turn 5!

Who in "casual" wants to face that??

....or are we taking into account removals? I

Commander_JAR: Casual is waaaaaay to subjective to put together a list like this. Vorinclex may be a pain but at higher levels of play most decks rely heavily on mana ramp through rocks/dorks and most players are at least somewhat used to dealing with land hate.

On toop of that, other than being a stax piece, he doesn't really do anything. Plus yeah, as you mentioned, Swords to Plowshares only costs one mana and you basically paint a target on yourself sitting down with a Vorinclex deck.

@Commander_JAR: Casual can also be a way of thinking in EDH (social contract etc. but that's a topic for a whole other discussion) and this is about the power level of the commanders, their associated decks, their place in the current metagame and the possibility of comparing the commanders with each other. There are simply a lot of green commanders who are more effective because they are cheaper.

Like enpc mentioned right, Vorinclex isn't that bad, he's an all or nothing commander, but he's always painting a big target on himself. Even if he's coming down Turn 5. Every of his opponents will try to remove him. Path to Exile , Deadly Rollick , Slaughter Pact , Assassin's Trophy , Beast Within , Kenrith's Transformation and I didn't even mention counterspells are all cards which are played in almost every deck right now, so Vorinclex often doesn't even survive a turn cycle. After that he already costs 10 mana, which is often to slow. Vorinclex is way better in the 99 of reanimator decks, where you can through him into the graveyard and reanimate it with cards like Animate Dead .

I see ur point @Commnader_Jar. If you get vorinclex out early in a stage of the game like turn 3,4 or 5, where your opponents dont have mana open for removal. You'll have a great lock on the game.

@Sephyrias: well yes, that seems decent, I mean 7 mana + your 6 mana commander is to much for cEDH, but yes, in a control shell it could atleast be a high-powered deck. I didn't know that combo, but You could play Consultation Oracle as mainwincon and Naru Meha + Counterpart could be the alternative wincondition.

You should submit this combo to https://commanderspellbook.com

@RobertoSjaa: Don't get me wrong, Vorinclex is very good creature who can win the game alone BUT if you play Vorinclex as your commander, everybody knows what's coming. Every skilled player will not tap out entirely or hold a hand without removal / counterspell against a Vorinclex player.

@smilodex: True, but if you drug your friends, they wont have a clue ;)