@HeroFallenVillain - To answer your question from earlier, I'd actually rather have the 3 - 3 split between Darkness and Visions of Beyond than having the full 4 Visions. Darkness in my experience has just been such a good topdeck to stall for a turn that I'd rather have it most games than the 4th Visions. Running 4 Visions myself I can tell you that I often use the 1st Visions just to cantrip for 1 at the end of my opponent's turn in order to find more spells/lands after my initial hand or if I'm looking to find an answer to an opponent's play. So I don't think the full 4 would be as necessary in your build as would bumping Darkness up to 3 would be.

As far as sweepers go, I've been testing out Infest as well as Black Sun's Zenith . Hands down Damnation is the best one out there, but I don't think I'll be able to get 2 copies of it before taking it to the next tourney. What I've found out is that Infest is better early game or when you're mana screwed, but late game sometimes you need something a little more lasting which makes Zenith the better choice. I was playing against my friend who uses Melira Pod this past week, and I would always Surgical Extraction his combo peices or mill them away, so he had to go for the beatdown win every time. With him activating Gavony Township every turn, his 1/1 and 2/2 mana dorks and support creatures started getting huge. Zenith can slow them down for multiple turns if it doesn't kill them since it puts -1/-1 counters on the creatures as opposed to lasting just until the end of the turn. But as far as sweepers go, those 2 seem to be the best budget options.

@GeminiSpartanX - I'll consider that, thanx.

I had to look up what Melira Pod was.

Wouldn't Melira, Sylvok Outcast prevent Black Sun's Zenith from placing the -X/-X counters?

That is true, but he didn't have her out at the time. Most Merira Pod decks only use 1-2 of her since they can tutor, but I extracted her out anyway to shut down the only combo that mill cares about (being the one where you play Murderous Redcap with Viscera Seer in play as a sac outlet for infinite damage. Gaining infinite life with Kitchen Finks doesn't matter when you mill them out! Which is why a Soul Sisters deck is kind of laughable against us too). But you bring up a good point with that. Maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and invest in a pair of Damnation . I might just wait a little longer and hope that new Theros sets will reprint it since it kind of fits the 'gods' theme of the set lol.

@GeminiSpartanX - Still though, both combos revolve around Melira, Sylvok Outcast keeping the -1/-1 counters off the persist creatures. Surgical Extraction her and the threat is shut down

I'm a bit eager to see what the new set has in store. Crossing fingers for a low cost killer miller creature! As well as some new good mill cards to fit in here :P

Sorry, that one was the wrong combo. Pod decks also get infinate life using Archangel of Thune with Spike Feeder . Pod is just a mean deck, but an easy win for mill, even if they do run Lingering Souls .

Soul Sisters kills us though because those Serra Ascendants beat us down before we mill even half their deck.

Yeah white has some seriously over-powered 1 mana cards lmao

That's a lot of comments and I haven't read them all so sorry if I repeat what has already been said.

I really like mill too, and have been trying to play around with it for modern with a similar dimir list: Dementia, Memory Extractor, and an esper list: Remember Unto Nothing.

I don't know how you feel about a white splash, but I think it might be better. Being able to add Path to Exile really helps to make Archive Trap more reliable. Trapmaker's Snare also becomes a 2mana Archive Trap if you cast it after someone searches their library, and adding Trapmaker's Snare lets you add a single Ravenous Trap for emergencies (cough Emrakul, the Aeons Torn cough).

I'd also consider playing around with at least a couple of Snapcaster Mage , it is never a bad topdeck as it is basically just an extra copy of whatever you need - Darkness , Visions of Beyond , Breaking , Glimpse the Unthinkable ...whatever, and is a 2/1 flash blocker to boot.

I also think that Surgical Extraction is usually better than Extirpate as you can play it whenever you need it, even if you don't have the mana up.

I do like your list, by the way, you have my +1 :P

Oh, and how have you found Jace, Memory Adept ? He seems to be awesome once you drop him, but he does drop very late.

I love this, incredibly fast in play testing. I wish it didn't cost $500, otherwise I'd start building it myself. Just awesome +1.

@scarmask - Yeah, I feel like it's interesting to be able to read through the comments and see how far this deck has come. It used to be entirely different lmao Many people have given me some stellar advice :P

I like your decks. I have debated a white splash. It may happen eventually. I may make a separate deck for it, even though it would likely be similar.

I do like the Ravenous Trap idea but I'm not sure where it helps with emrakul, besides making sure he doesn't shuffle the rest of the graveyard back in. What I mean is I don't think the trap would actually deal with emrakul himself could it?

I kinda just barely don't like Snapcaster... I might try to play around with him.

I run Extirpate over Surgical Extraction because I use shocks and health is a scarce resource with this deck. The Extirpate also has the split second perk. I would run the extraction if I didn't have so much shock going on.

Thanx for the vote. Yeah Jace is great but indeed a late drop. I have been debating swapping him for a more useful fast card... just haven't found the right one yet :P

@nashbridges52 - Thanx for the vote. Yeah I have tried to concentrate on making this the fastest deck possible :D

Fair enough, as you can see I'm playing around with the two separate decks too.

Yeah just being able to tutor out instant graveyard hate is nice, and when I say it deals with emrakul, I just mean you can cast Ravenous Trap in response to emrakul's shuffle trigger, and exile the graveyard - with him in it - before he and the rest of the graveyard is shuffled back in. So yes, if that's what you were wondering, as I understand it if you time it correctly you can exile emrakul while he is in the graveyard with Ravenous Trap (or any instant gy hate for that matter).

Mind you, you can also already do that with your sideboard hate and your Crypt Incursion . I just like being able to get away with running a singleton graveyard hate in the mainboard, but yeah it may not be worthwhile in the straight b/u build.

@scarmask - I think I might play around with that idea. Thanx.

I'm not to most well-versed on technical rules. I haven't found myself trying to counter a trigger yet. It seems plausible though :P

Good to know :D

No worries :)

I myself did not know that Ravenous Trap existed... I was always using Surgical Extraction on those pesky trigger shuffles.

The fact that you can reliably cast Surgical Extraction for 0 mana makes it good for dealing with emrakul, though sadly it doesn't exile the rest of the graveyard.

Still an amazing card though, especially in mill.

@iamacasual - I had actually originally had it in my sideboard, til someone convinced me to narrow down my graveyard hate in SB. When I did though, the deck was much different lmao I may give it another look.

@scarmask - Well see, I don't get to play this deck. Or at all for that matter. I don't have anyone to play with around here. Things have been tight around Christmas with the family and all and I haven't been able to buy myself a car yet. I'm just now starting to get some money saved up for it :) Point being, I tell myself that the split second is a good trade off, but now I am thinking that even though I use shocks, the 2 life could still most frequently save me more damage than that lmao I just need to play it to feel comfortable in decisions like that :P

If you use Surgical Extraction, use Crypt Incursion.

Also, get Cockatrice.

I have Crypt Incursion , but I don't understand why you say that? How's it that different from Extirpate , as far as using CI?

Cockatrice is Forest... why use that? If you mean Deathgaze Cockatrice ... I don't understand that suggestion either :P

Because then you'll be more free to pay 2 life for Surgical Extraction. Often what I find myself doing is turn 2 Glimpsing and getting something good, then paying 2 life to get that out of the way immediately. It's much faster than Extirpate because turn 2 they can Liliana and now you're just screwed.

Also, I meant Cockatrice freeware MTG online. It lets you playtest your decks for free as long as you load them up.

Oh, ok.

I did a search and it seems that Cockatrice was shut down. Do you know anything more about it?

You can still find torrents for it, and it's run by woogerworks now or something like that.

Also, Jace-Memory in this deck... personally I'm adverse to him because although he IS a turn 5 glimpse, you'll be tapping out to play him and by then most control decks will just counter him, most aggro decks will swing at him and kill him before you can use him again (and you're not going to block much with crabs--and crabs really shouldn't be used as blocks unless you know you can win in 2 or less turns after it dies), and most burn decks will bolt him.

Ah ok, I'll look again, thanx.

Yeah I hadn't thought of it that way. I have been debating on replacing him. I think I will now :P

In my experience, Ratchet Bomb > Engineered Explosives. It's more versatile since its our only answer to Leyline of Sanctity.

I actually had Ratchet Bomb in it's place before, the I realized that Engineered Explosives says "for each mana" and not "for each different mana". EE will work for Leyline of Sanctity , which is actually specifically what it's in there for (enchantment hate) :P The only real difference is that you're paying a mana in place of a turn! I guess that could go either way though... My thinking before was that you could use it faster because you simply pay the 4 mana to cast it, but fair enough you can get RB out earlier, it's more versatile in that sense and you leave mana freed up....

I suppose you're right then... even if both will work :P