I don't think you need more wincons than Keranos, God of Storms and Pearl Lake Ancient . Spellheart Chimera , Indulgent Tormentor , and Ashcloud Phoenix are all pretty flimsy for control decks, and all die to Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames , which are being played in basically every red deck in Standard right now. At least Ashcloud Phoenix can come back, but I think I'd rather have more control aspects.

I would definitely add more draw power. Font of Fortunes is good, but not enough to just have 2 of them. I'd add 4 Dig Through Time and/or Jace's Ingenuity .

I also think you'll want to go up to a full 4 Dissolve , and add some Disdainful Stroke as well, because counterspells are just necessary if you're playing a U control deck. Mindswipe is good, but I think I'd go down to 2 copies, because it is better for general face damage than actually countering spells, especially in a Green dominated meta where all decks are ramping into lots of mana faster than you are playing lands.

More land is also definitely necessary. This kind of control deck will want at least 26 land, because missing land drops in the early game is very very bad, because it instantly puts control under a lot of pressure and at a huge disadvantage.

I've built a control deck too, The Rogue Shard of Tarkir , if you want to check it out. Mine is Esper, not Grixis, but I feel like both lists are good, and both powerful in different ways. I focus more on straight up control while this deck has a more midrangey feel to it. +1 from me. /p>

You're making a lot of sense.

First) The creatures were a problem for me, too. The Chimera is fun early game, pesky turn three or four, and I've had a lot of positive experience with it but spot on with the other creatures. Tormentor IS flimzy but I love the ablility, a desperate choice I find to fill a spot however. I haven't seen a lot of choices for other bombs to use in this set so I'm at a loss for what else to use. ...I miss Master of Cruelties , that dude exhaled Grixis.

Second) The Font, I think, is at a nice place and the Dig is way bulky in cost whenever I'd see it but I'll really consider it because of Delve.

Third) Mindswipe has put Dissolve and all the other counter spells in such a huge shadow that I don't WANT to run anything else, it's just that fun. I'll miss the scrying but Disdainful Stroke seems like a good idea.

Fourth) I've playtested that Esper deck and I feel that 26 lands would literally congest the deck: every temple I had put down scryed away another temple. Missing land drops hasn't been a problem yet, more concerned with the mana curve really, but I think that'll rear it's head by the time I put it together for FNM so maybe no more than 24.

Thanks, really appreciate it

I love Indulgent Tormentor too, and was trying to make it work in a Grixis build alongside Prognostic Sphinx , but found its lack of toughness to be a huge drawback. Sure, someone can cast Hero's Downfall targeting Prognostic Sphinx , but pitching a land turns it into a Twiddle . Teehee. Without a way to stay on the field, I just felt that Indulgent Tormentor wasn't pulling enough weight and ended up dropping the idea.

This does give me another idea now though, a Grixis midrange list loaded with flying creatures. Stormbreath Dragon , Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker , Prognostic Sphinx , Indulgent Tormentor , Flame-Wreathed Phoenix , and Ashcloud Phoenix ...sounds fun to me! :D

Prosphinx is definitely the responsible card but I just can't see it wining games any sooner than a Demon lasting a turn or two. The Tormentor is definitely coming out sooner or later, the Phoenix along with it, possibly depending on what Fates Foretold has in store but for now, I can always side it out for Tromokratis or Necropolis Fiend against red.

Awww, I could see it now, someone making a top-10 pro-decklist using Grixis midrange and suddenly I want to play Bant. :(

I think Dissolve is much better than Voyage's End . I would rather just counter a threat like Butcher of the Horde , Wingmate Roc , or Siege Rhino than return it to hand. Its just a better way to deny a threat. I think board delay is okay, but the counters are better. If you want to run board delay like that, I would rather run Void Snare even if it is sorcery speed, because the lesser investment allows for an easier time holding up mana for burn/counters/draw spells. I would always run Dig Through Time in this kind of deck. It is just so many times better than Font of Fortunes . Also, Jace's Ingenuity is much better than Taigam's Scheming . For a control-style deck I feel like there are too many low-impact permanents. Indulgent Tormentor isn't very hard to kill for a five mana creature. Spellheart Chimera is also way too easy to kill, and heavily reliant on your graveyard. I think taking them out altogether would be fine as long as you include maybe 2 Dig Through Time and 3 Jace's Ingenuity . The hard part with control right now is not dealing too much damage to yourself since there is not good way to gain that life back. For this reason, I would consider Despise over Thoughtseize . Its really only worse than Thoughtsieze in a control mirror, and that match-up shouldn't be encountered all that frequently. I don't understand why Tromokratis is in the sideboard. Pearl Lake Ancient is just better, and I think its slot could be better devoted to something else.

Yeah, can't say I wholly agree about the bounce spells; although Snare would be more of a utility to change board presence, it confines me to play spells mainly during my turn which is terrible for waiting to stifle plays even slightly resembling a treat. Control means options and options now, I need the ability to decide what best to play at instant speed most of all.

Jace's Ingenuity is such a slow card, I'd rather use Treasure Cruise . Even on T2, playing Font right then and there allows me the option to draw two the next turn IF I decide that the cards in hand aren't enough to get me by. Dig Through Time however I've heard come up a lot lately and I've been considering it since. I don't understand how Ingenuity is better than Scheming which lets me look and chose what best to draw compared to just blindly drawing so late in the game.

Indulgent Tormentor is such an awful card, I know, but it's ability makes it seem just so irresponsible not to have around. I think the sideboard is a better home for it for now. Chimera is an annoying little T3 jerk that could be fatal if no one responds to it and a guy can only run Pearl Lake so many times. Anything else?

Love the name +1

This deck isn't Cruel Control, no matter how cruel it is or how not fun it is to play against. Cruel Control is Modern-legal UBR control that has a finisher of Cruel Ultimatum. Yours is the same colors, but misses one thing. Also Erebos, God of the Dead seems pretty weak.

OpenFire, yeah, that makes complete sense to me, not having the Ultimatum. If there was any variation of a control deck, I thought then, Grixis would hit Cruel Control's nail on the head. I'll take it down whenever. I just liked how it sounded. :I

Also, Erebos IS pretty weak compared to Mogis or Keranos but is just there to be a pain against lifegain decks and that I wouldn't run the chance of drawing into it or wasting Lilliana's tutor second game if I run it in the sideboard.

I would definitely run 4x Dissolve over the Disdainful Stroke. Just because a blanket counter is MUCH better and the scry is just a bonus to control decks. It's just all around the best counter in standard right now, with Negate being the runner up.

Another thing to consider is running Jace's Ingenuity over Steam Augury, At only 1 mana more. You can cast it out end of the opponents turn to just straight draw 3 and not give your opponent the chance at the peek.

Just another thought is cutting Mogis, God of Slaughter all together and going for some more draw power. It just seems out of place in here, He's fit for a midrange affair, while he does grind out the opponent, it just seems like your not running enough draw power in here (@ 4 draw cards). Instant draw power is the best, so like wise Jace's Ingenuity or Weave Fate could work for you.

And dropping out Tromokratis and Pearl Lake Ancient might be good to bring up the count on Keranos, God of Storms and Prognostic Sphinx (The subborn bugger)

A stubborn bugger indeed, Caligula.

I never regretted seeing Mogis opening hand, even when I see the second one a couple turns later. Works well with Sphinx oddly, the second is always the first card that gets pitched to keep the Sphinx alive. I sort of see them AS my mid-game so I don't find myself floundering around til turn six just to do some heavy duty control.

I should probably keep the whales in for now until we get well into the next set, there are plenty of quick face beating creatures in Reforged that I want to mess around with. Just for that extra screw-you against mirror match control. :)

I've heard a ton of the same advice about Dissolve, and although I do like having a wide base of specific counters, I've been really only afraid of how that will effect my mana base. And Ingenuity doesn't really help with its double-blue. Configuring mana must be my biggest crutch in building so if you can give me some advice on fixing to take that double-blue punch, I'll try to see if I could bump it up to at least three. I may just fiddle around with Weave, otherwise. Thanks

Why Tromokratis...? I mean, it has hexproof but loses it and gets hit right away. Why not Silumgar, the Drifting Death? Less power but permanent hexproof and works well with the dragonlord. Also, Dragonlord Silumgar and Tasigur, the Golden Fang might be worth considering.

Heard a lot of good things about Tasigur, what do you suggest I cut for him (besides Tomokratis)?

I would cut both Despise for one more Thoughtseize and Tasigur.

But why do you hold on to Tromokratis so much? Is it because you have him?