Dread Return Lab Maniac, and if you're doing Hermit Druid, you Flashback Deep Analysis, if you do Hulk, you have Hapless Researcher in your Hulk pile.

Hi Sigi

I dont really see the need for these cards:ReanimateNecromancyAngels Grace

Would you care to explain them?

Best Regards

Any budget substitutions for Time Twister and Imperial Seal ?

Hi

I'm on a bit of a budget trying to build this deck and have a few more cards that I can't afford then most people. I am missing Imperial Seal, Timetwister, Force of Will, Noble Hierarch and Mox Diamond. I threw in Krosan Reclamation for the twister and Muddle the Mixture for the imperial seal because I saw that you had commented those suggestions to other people on a budget. I was wondering if you could suggest some replacements for the other 3 cards.

Thank you so much

Hey LabManiac_Sigi any chance Seasons Past could be a budget alternative for Timetwister, as a way to cast every card in the deck an infinite number of times after doing the bomberman loop and milling yourself.

Hey there Surreality Foil could be a budget Force of Will. As for Imperial Seal, Cruel Tutor serves the exact same function at the cost of additional mana. Sadly I couldn't find budget alternatives for the other cards.

What was the reason for removing Bazaar of Bagdad? I thought it was a really good card

Labmaniac_Sigi, I love this deck and have it made but I am at a complete loss for why you are running 2/3's of Bomberman? Maybe I am missing something obvious or maybe its just for infinite mana. Without a mana dump though it seems a little silly. Could you please let me know. Thanks

Zombie, check out the win conditions section of the primer:

"Now that we have infinite Mana, what can we do with it?Thrasios, Triton Herohas an activated ability that only requires mana to let us draw cards. This means that we can translate infinite mana of any sort into infinite draws at any point. What can we do with infinite draws? Let's see":

"I. Laboratory Maniac"

"II Timetwister/Memory's Journey Loops"

Hey Sigi,

I run a different Hulk List that really abuses Angel of Glory's Rise. I'm excited to see that you're running it. I stole it from your "All Nightmare Long" SBT List, and i'd love your feedback because i think it might be more efficient (in terms of card real estate) than the breakfast combo. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thrasios-angel-hulk/?cb=1518065223

The All Nightmare Long list ideally flashes Protean Hulk to get Mogis' Marauder, Deathrite Shaman and Hermit Druid. Mogis' Marauder gives Deathrite Shaman and Hermit Druid haste. Deathrite Shaman gets to pay for Hermit.

What's really cool about this is it gives us an alternate Buried Alive line with Angel of Glory's Rise. We can cast Buried Alive and pitch Angel, Mogis' Marauder and Hermit. Mogis and Hermit are both human and can get reanimated. Hermit again has haste. We can then sac our reanimated creatures to Dread Return to return Angel of Glory's Rise to bring out all our humans including Grand Abolisher, Laboratory Maniac and Hapless Researcher with our second Angel reanimation.

Hermit and Mogis only leaves one mana open in Hulk as opposed to the more mana efficient Breakfast combo. However, we still have flexibility where we can trade the haste granted by Mogis' Marauder for protection (Grand Abolisher), Removal (Flickerwisp). We can also reanimate Hermit Druid by using Mogis Marauder, Apprentice Necromancer and Deathrite Shaman (and 1 Green mana). It's never come up but Apprentice Necromancer is also a human and works with Angel of Glory's Rise.

Anyway this is long, and I've had this list for a while and been meaning to post it to /r/comeptitiveedh, would love your thoughts on this.

re: the above comment, Apprentice Necromancer does not work with Angel, i'm a dummy

Thank you for pointing it out. I now see the benefit of it all

what happens if you cast hermit druid, however on your next draw step you draw dread return? Is there a way i can put it either into the deck or the graveyard?

Animeno,

You can use Cabal Therapy for the flashback cost. People used to run Phantasmagorian, but cabal therapy hurts less with Ad Naus and it doesn't require you to have three cards in hand.

Thank you Brimar, I guess it's just a case of me not really thinking about the potential uses of cabal therapy. I was thinking of running phantasmagorian but this seems to work jut as well

Never fear to those who have trouble piloting this deck. Sigi is keeping records of all my inane questions. This primer will be idiot proof.

We are fortunate to have such a kind and generous deck designer.

Even though this combo is very fast I still feel that the weakest point is the dread return, what are peoples thoughts on this and what can be done to keep it safe from cards that remove key combo pieces like dread return or angel of glory's rise (in regards to rest in peace effects etc.) Again, i'n not that good at coming up with strats to protect a combo (other than counterspelling). Just wonder what peoples' thoughts were on the matter.

Green suns zenith, i still don't understand why it is in the deck. can someone explain? is it just to put hermit druid on the battlefield?

Yeah, it gets you Hermit Druid first and foremost, and Artifact/Enchantment removal (Caustic Caterpillar) or graveyard hate (Deathrite Shaman) when you need it.

To people asking for budget options for Timetwister:

Outside of the very unlikely scenario that you'll be stuck with a mulligan down to below 4, and having to use TT to get a new hand, to have a sporting chance in the game, you'll only ever use TT after Bomberman Loops, i.e. infinite card draw. So the card draw portion of the card is academic.

Thus, I imagine that Mnemonic Nexus and Psychic Spiral are good cards to have instead. Mnemonic Nexus is the cheaper of the two, mana-wise, but is a symmetrical effect, and Psychic Spiral also mills your opponents for their entire library, or close to it.

I'm guessing you'd go for Psychic Spiral if you're in a meta that runs a lot of instant speed interruption (i.e. you don't want them to be able to use their interrupts against you several times over), and Mnemonic Nexus in a slightly less interactive meta.

Both of them also have the upside of being instant, so they are another way out, if someone manages to interrupt your mill combos. Sure, it's an effective reset of your progress, but it's still preferable to losing! :)

Both of those seem really bad, to be completely honest. The budget swap for Timetwister I'd recommend is Krosan Reclamation, as it's effectively a second Memory's Journey.

That's very true!

Out of interest, what upside is there to running Timetwister instead of Krosan Reclamation, aside from pure bling value? Is it simply because it gives you a second chance if you've ended up with an absolute bum hand? :P

I think that those are the most obvious upsides, however, I guess in a scenario where someone tries to do do some kind of graveyard shenanigans when you're combo-ing off you can respond. I think that Sigi gives a better explanation in his Youtube deck tech with the Lab Maniacs.

Twister is at sorcery speed though, so it would have to be a very slow combo :P

But yeah, admittedly, it was a while since I watched the deck tech, should probably give it another view :)

Another question. necromancy, what do we use this for? like in more depth. is it for interupting opponents? bringing back lab maniac during upkeep or for when we discard protean hulk through a wheel effect/cabal therapy