Hi thank you LabManiac_Sigi for the wonderful deck. May I ask how important is Cavern of Souls in the deck?

What do you normally name with it?

Does it often tap for the desired color mana especially early game when you need to cast tutors etc?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the excellent deck list and combo explanation!

I was wondering what your opinion is on running Dryad Arbor to help speed up the Hermit Druid combo if you have a Green Sun's Zenith in hand. Is it just a worse Llanowar Elves?

LabManiac_Sigi I'm curious why not run SSG or ESG because with the right hand you can just win turn 0.Gemstone mine, SSG/ESG, flash, hulk, x,y,z. I guess I understand that it's a rare oddity to happen requiring 4 out of 100 cards in your opening but it can allow for more explosive starts. Just curious.

nivikyesac not to answer for the builder but my guess is that they are dead draws 99.9% of the time.

How are u getting hapless researcher with angel of glory's rise? it's a wizard, and angel returns all humans .

looked up rulings after i posted that above, and yes, it works. ruling on the card shows it "human wizard" creature type. my apologies it wont let me edit or delete the original post, but; if anyone reads it, yes it works regardless of the card text only showing wizard as the creature type.

I personally prefer Krosan Reclamation to Timetwister for the second half of the game plan as you can still win by stacking Gitaxian Probe and Reanimate to attempt to return Angel of Glory's Rise the turn after your Dread Return is countered. Reanimate itself can allow you another Autumn's Veil/Silence/Dispel effect to try to force through a win in the same turn as a failed Dread Return. While Krosan Reclamation additionally helps protect your graveyard from hate like Faerie Macabre. It still gives you an additional way to loop spells as with Memory's Journey giving you lots of redundancy. As for Timetwister it has less utility once it is in our graveyard unless we are already about to win with our Bomberman loops which Krosan Reclamation still does. Face value in hand it recycles everyone's hands which has some value but in the late game it's not useful if our Dread Return has been exiled. Whereas Krosan Reclamation allows for turn after turn of trying to force through a win if we have it in our hand in our late game.

I've gotta say this deck is a blast to play Sigi, keep up the good work!

Is this the deck that you had on your YouTube channel that goldfished at 2.8?

Also, I love the lab maniacs on YouTube. You guys have helped me a bunch in getting over the plateau I had gotten to with my deck. Thanks for doing what you do

Considered dark confidant in the deck? Seems good here. Also, would you be willing to explain the flash of insight lines? Thank you.

Hey LabManiac_Sigi,

I was wondering if you could provide better insight on your land base? No need to explain the fetches and og duals but the rest would be really appreciated.

Thanks you

I do have a question, why does tappedout say Muldrotha, the Gravetide is banned? I replaced it with Auriok Salvagers for the time being. I was curious cause not even Wizards recognize the card when i tried to seach for it on their website. The reason i did not link Muldothra was cause tappedout wouldn't let me cause it says it is banned

Nevermind, i kept looking around to find out it was only a leaked new creature of the newest set. Thats why tapped out and other sites are not recognizing the card. Sorry

I am surprised you got rid of the second half of the bomberman combo.

I am also surprised by the removal of the bomberman combo, however i assume this is because you can do it with muldrotha, LED and phantasmal image. Also, what are peoples thoughts on mox amber? does it have a place in this deck given the addition of muldrotha or is it a waste of space?

How does muldrotha, LED and phantasmal image infinite? also i noticed caterpillar has gone now for rec sage

Darksanctuary This link explains it better, https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveEDH/comments/86lxv6/muldrotha_the_gravetide_combo/

Basically it recurs both LED and Muldrotha creating infinite mana much like bomberman, however in that link, one of the key cards is animate dead (a card that is not in this list). I assume that Sigi has a different but similar plan, however im not too sure how it will work.

Either way this new combo allows the lab man combo to still function whilst having twister loops as an immediate backup for infinite swans etc.

Necromancy is in his list which would still work. i was mainly asking the infinite because you mentioned 3 cards not the 4th :p

Sigi, you can't drop such a bomb on us and then keep quiet :(Why didn't you correct the text first and then the Deck. I personally don't see the advantage of this combo in this deck. Probably I'm unable to see it... The result is the same, but the Muldrotha combo seems more vulnerable to me. Before the change you reanimate Angel of Glory's Rise and after its triggered ability is resolved you're safe, because of Grand Abolisher. With the new combo your opponents are able to interact afterwards. With the Angel your opponents need to know your deck to know that grand Abolisher will hit the board. Or am I wrong with these thoughts? :/

@ neolithic - at first it improves card efficiency. led is in anyway so salvagers and angel out for moldy and image. thats 2 more not dead cards if in hand as both arent dead without their combo pieces. the bigger impact though imo is the shift from a certain vulnerability to another one: before Torpor Orb was a problem, now it is Null Rod.

this improves the teferi matchup as you dodge the FCT splashhate torpor orb can be, while teferi also doesnt like to see the rod.

on the other hand tana&tymna now have 2 other hatecards against this.

about salvagers: its better with eldritch evolution which also is not in sigi's list. and hey i also was curious after such a long time to see if the primer is up and no its not but hey some changes. XD

@elfricThat makes sense. So it's meta related. Thanks for your response :)

Nevertheless I'm very curious what LabManiac_Sigi will add to the win con section :)

Torpor Orb vs Null Rod/improving the Teferi matchup was not the reason why I made the change, especially considering that many Teferi decks don't run Torpor Orb anymore these days. The deck still wins through Null Rod with several other lines, so Muldrotha/LED being weak to Null Rod isn't much of a consideration. The reason behind the change was that Muldrotha gives more flexibility when it comes to which lines to take and how to take them. On top of that, Phantasmal Image and Muldrotha herself are just less dead draws than Auriok Salvagers and Angel of Glory's Rise.

The wincon update was meant to be finished this week, but it'll be delayed due to me being sick.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm really curious about the details :) But get well again first! Gute Besserung :)

What's the reason for running just Necromancy, and not one of the less mana intensive reanimator spells? Is it because it can get a hulk trigger off without the need for a sac outlet, or is there some other quirk with it that I'm missing?

Yup, that's the whole reason.