Necromancy kills your own Hulk, that's the important part.

Experimenting with the new lines. liking it so far. although, i feel that the "vulnerability" that others are suggesting in the comments above hasnt't changed much from the old angel of glory's rise combo line. if an opponent, is going to interact with your combo turn, it's usually one of 2 points for me. 1. in response to the narcomoeba trigger with an instant draw effect to try to kill me on the spot. 2. in response to dread return either with a counter, or an exile effect on either muldrotha, lab man, etc. lion's eye discarding my hand does make me a bit uneasy, but we still have flash of insight/memory's journey to fall back on if we get hosed. i feel this line needs to be explained in the primer. one card i truly feel needs the axe in the list is gitaxian probe. so bad here. it's used in a lot of other competitive decks for the following reasons: slot filler in combo decks that don't need anything else in the slot, to view an opponent's hand before a combo (i.e. with cabal therapy at the ready in legacy storm), as a free cantrip with doomsday or storm combos. we need it for none of those reasons. it can be used to see what interaction an opponent has before we activate hermit druid but, i'd rather just have an answer to interaction in that slot. knowing what they have does me no good if i can't answer it and if they got it they got it. i swapped it for mana drain. anyway, enough of my rant. keep up the good work, sigi and thanks for the updates! (ps. i'd love to see a new season of lab maniacs in the works.) take care.

@xEth0sx There is a way to get protection after MUL is on the field... Before that, you are pretty open and don't think it can be any other way because that will mess with the speed this deck runs at... You'll need some extra white mana other than cavern of souls...

Use Mul to return a land; Cavern of Souls (Call humans) and use it to get Grand Abolisher back. and from this point on you should be fine except for faerie macab...

Use led for triple BBB and cast Necromancy or Animate Dead on Phantasmal Image(in the grave) cloning MUL when it enters.

Let the original die and recast led of our new one, crack it for BBB again and cast Animate Dead or Necromancy (one which you didn't use yet) on MUL in the Yard letting The image and necromancy both die...

This will reset the entire loop Again and break you free... from here on you can continue with the normal win with protection...

(You could cut the Probe for Animate dead in this case because you can not do this without it... you'll get stuck with a necromancy on a phantasmal image and an LED on the field again without anything to recur MUL with. you could also get lab man back and use a flashback draw which the deck also doesn't run but that's an enormous hoop to jump through and more mana...)

I've covered a bit of these finds on comments above, and on my copy-deck of Sigi the amazing HULK.

Is it just me or are all the main explanation portions in the win conditions section just missing?

Oh damn, you're right. Why this. I'll look into fixing it tomorrow.

Besides angel’s grace and value plays, is there a reason the deck needs Ad Nauseum? It’s been disappointing in goldfishes and I’m considering heresy and filling the two slots with something else. I imagine getting stuck without a way to win outside the graveyard, but couldn’t think of anything else. Hoping this thread can talk some sense into me.

@PlatosCave117

Goldfishes are aimed to spam hulk or hermit (Plan A) asap and don't take in consideration interaction, where at some point in any 4-man-pod people will be able to stop these (even turn 1 or 2) in some way and I always felt like the Ad Nauseam + Angel's Grace has been a great backup win for the late game and not to hard to cast with all the ramp we have mid-game either.

I guess you could play around with other infinite combo's as well like dramatic-scepter or grim-artifact if you are on a more Staxy meta?

@Kiyomei, Thanks, those are not bad alternatives. My playgroup was telling me it’s basically a risk, and what I gain in potential consistency I may lose in overall resilience.

A bit of a silly question, but after you mill your entire deck and play MUL for infinite mana how do yu then draw cards with Thrasios? Is there a way of putting those cards back into your library, or do you just play the combo from graveyard with MUL although MUL can only play permanents so I'm not sure what to do?

Muldrotha can play out Laboratory Maniac, then when you draw a card with Thrasios, you win the game.

Once you've made your infinite Mana, you can Flashback Memory's Journey to shuffle a Timetwister back into your deck. Draw that with Thrasios and cast it to re-fill your whole library.

Am using an earlier version of the deck that had Auriok Salvagers but no Angel of Glory Rise. How is this iteration (Muldrotha)better than the previous ones?

I see, i'm guessing that there is no way to do that without timetwister, im currently using krosan reclamation due to budget requirements.

Oh, and I suggest using Gitaxian Probe instead of Cephalid Coliseum in the combo.

the probe does (almost always) nothing in this particular improved Mul Line and Coliseum is always active! check out the primer for a better understanding :) (Probe is in the deck though ;) )... it's all about having less and less dead cards like salvagers and angel in theory.

You can do the same loop with Krosan Reclamation:

Flashback Memory's Journey, targeting Reclamation and Noxious Revival. Draw both with Thrasios. Cast Reclamation to shuffle two cards back into your deck. Cast Noxious Revival on Krosan Reclamation. Draw cards with Thrasios until your library is empty. Cast Krosan Reclamation on Noxious Revival and one other card. Repeat until you have your deck in your hand.

Muldrotha is better for the deck because the cards it uses are less dead than Salvagers and Angel of Glory's Rise, and Muldrotha solves the rare corner case of drawing both Dread Return and Laboratory Maniac - only drawing one of the two is not an issue thanks to Cabal Therapy Flashback, but getting both at once is awkward.

While a hard cast dread return isn't too awful either in some niche situations I suppose?

@LabManiac_Sigi

I made a deck cEDH Will you concede? that I heavily based off of this deck. However, instead of just winning the game, my focus is to rip up every card in your opponent's deck. It does use Blacker Lotus, but I still thought it was funny. This deck is not meant to be serous. You should never actually rip up anyone's cards except for your own. I still was wondering if you could look at my joke deck and let me know anything I could improve.

Thanks

@LabManiac_Sigi Thanks, that makes more sense now!!

That does make a lot of sense. Guess I need to update my list too. Thanks guys!

Maybe i am silly, but how do you do in a) Hermit Druid ii) Timetwister loops step number 1) draw your deck, when you have whole deck in a grave??

You use Memory’s Journey after getting “infinite mana”.

Correct me if I'm wrong but after playing this deck a bit, it seems like you can only really use Thrasios' activated ability after you dumpster your library and go infinite with Muldrotha. Actually all the combos seem to be dependent on the all-in self mill plan, which to me seems like a major weakness. This deck basically scoops to static graveyard hate, and is really vulnerable until it gets Grand Abolisher on the field. It has a number of ways to win once it has accomplished that mill, but everything it's trying to do (Hermit Druid, or Cephalid Brekky) hinges on this axis.

Ad Naus + Angel's Grace into either double Windfall or Lab Maniac and a draw spell is the line you can take when you don't have access to your graveyard. What's more, the deck runs 5 cards that deal with an on-board Cage or RIP, and every tutor in the deck is able to find at least one of those. On top of that, it runs a good amount of counterspells, so you're a bit off in your assessment that it just scoops to static graveyard hate. The deck is built with things like graveyard hate and early interaction in mind, and it can quite comfortably deal with either.

My comment was about how the gy libe in this deck under utilitizes Thrasios. Other than LED+Mul after you self mill, is there any other way this deck generates inf mana? Seems like Thrasios is best used after you've already combo when you have Abolisher on board and can safely Dread Return labman.