Building a New, Crueler Meta (!!SUGGESTIONS!!)
Modern
SCORE: 28 | 69 COMMENTS | 3960 VIEWS | IN 6 FOLDERS
malfeischylde says... #3
Terminate can't target thrun, as it has Hexproof. However, Geth's Verdict can. You should consider some on the SB if hexproof regen is an issue in your meta.
March 30, 2015 2:19 p.m.
I have 3 Devour Flesh in the sideboard for those situations but adding a Geth's Verdict to the main board might be a good idea malfeischylde
March 30, 2015 10:04 p.m.
malfeischylde says... #5
I know that many like to have no double-mana spells, but the devour flesh allows a life gain, instead of net loss. That's why I dislike it.
March 31, 2015 2:09 p.m.
Williamwwc7 says... #6
You might want to put in some more cheap control like Go for the Throat, Surgical Extraction, or Inquisition of Kozilek instead of the heavy/not as useful ones like Slaughter Games and Counterflux.
Another creature wouldn't hurt either. Some good ones are Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Dragonlord Silumgar, and Prince of Thralls.
You might also consider taking out a Bloodstained Mire (because you only have one swamp and two mountains) for either one of these creatures, or a Crumbling Necropolis
Just some thoughts. Take it or leave it.
April 3, 2015 12:42 p.m.
malfeischylde says... #7
Counterflux is really just good sb tech for anti storm or control mirror, but little else.
April 4, 2015 12:23 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #8
How does this deck do against aggro decks? It looks a little slow to handle most faster decks, but I may be wrong. +1 from me though, neat list.
April 4, 2015 12:42 p.m.
I am still constructing the deck, but in playtests there is little I can do against aggro decks until turn three and Anger of the Gods. Do you have any suggestions that could help with the aggro matchups? Figag
April 4, 2015 1:11 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #10
Here's what I do when building control. I know a lot of the cards I list below you already run, but this brings in the purpose and talks about the ratios of cards.
Fortunately because you run Grixis, you have access to black removal, red burn, and blue counters so there's enough out there to handle any aggro deck, but finding the right balance is tricky. I'd say because you have 6 wincons (bolas, 3 ultimatum, sorin, keranos) and 25 lands, the remaining 29 cards should hold probably be mostly burn, counters, and removal. The sideboard should contain strong tech such as graveyard hate, forced sacrificing, deck destruction, and other deck-specific cards, as well as tweaks to make the deck lean towards either burn, counters, or removal depending on the match-up. Your wincons shouldn't change by match-up. You may side 1 or 2 out, but never side into wincons. It's not worth the space.
Of the 29 mainboard I would say have 20-22 of BCR (burn counters removal), 4-5 hand destruction, and 4-5 draw. To maintain a proper curve, 1-2 mana spells should be the most prominent with 8-10 for each, and less for each subsequent mana cost. Your current curve looks too slow. Any card for 1-2 mana should be trading evenly in mana and card count with your opponent, whereas the 3-5 mana cards need to be building advantage for you. It should only take 2 cmc=3 cards to take over, or 1 cmc=5 card to stabilize. Your expensive spells need to be game-changing.
For the 1 mana cards, there should be 4 burn and 4 hand destruction. More specifically, play 4 Lightning Bolt and 4 of your choice between Duress, Thoughtseize, and Inquisition of Kozilek. You could also run 1-2 counters and removal spells, but that's personal preference. For counters Spell Snare and Spell Pierce are probably the best but I would only run Spell Snare in the side. Too risky of missing in the main. I have yet to find worthy removal for 1 mana, so stick to counters and burn. 1 card I really love at 1 mana is Darkness. You can run it if you want. It's also really good in late game to protect your planeswalker loyalty from attackers.
For the 2 mana cards, I don't really like any of the burn because it's all just bad imitators of Lightning Bolt, so no 2 mana burn. Fortunately there's lots of counters and some good removal as well. Remand and Mana Leak are the 2 best, but there are lots more to choose from. For removal you already have Terminate, Dreadbore, and Devour Flesh and I have nothing to add to that. Devour Flesh is better off in the side where you have it, so good job. I would recommend running 1 more Terminate in the main so you have 4 Terminate and 1 Dreadbore. 1-2 more dreadbore in the side is a good idea as well.
3 mana is hard because there is just too many spells to choose from. After your 1 and 2 mana spells you already have decent hand removal and amazing spot removal for creatures and some very good conditional counters as well, so what's missing? Mass removal. Anger of the Gods, Drown in Sorrow, and Electrolyze are the 3 I like. For this deck I'd say no Drown in Sorrow because Anger of the Gods is much better. You also gain access to hard removal here. Counterflux is probably the best in your colors for this. It can hit individual cards and also hits your opponent's pump-up cards that they stack 4-5 at a time. One commonly played card is Dismember. It costs 3 mana but can be cast for 1. Your Terminate and Dreadbore are better, but can't be cast for 1 colorless. Just something to think about. I usually incorporate creatures into my control decks, but I don't think you need to. At least, it doesn't look like you want to, which is perfectly ok. That should fill the 3 mana slots in the mainboard.
The 4+ mana spells they need to be game changing. The mass removal cards above were still conditional, so now we need hard wipes. You already run Crux of Fate and it is great because of budget and not too mana heavy. I prefer Life's Finale but that's because I need the grave filling. You already have Cryptic Command and Damnation in the out of budget category, and that is where they belong. Amazing cards, but properly overpriced. Slaughter Games is good, but shouldn't be in the mainboard. Run 2-3 in the side only.
For drawpower, the cards you currently run that draw cards are Keranos, God of Storms, Think Twice, Jace, Architect of Thought, Remand, and Electrolyze. Because control players need to play 1 land every turn for the first 5-6 drops, aggro has an inherent advantage that they can live on a 2 mana opening hand. Therefore, to stay even, your cards need to replace themselves or remove 2 cards at once. A lot of your cards replace themselves which is good, but I don't recommend running Think Twice. Because your deck can't have a wincon out until turn 5 at the fastest, you need to be constantly drawing cards so you have an response before your opponent has a play. Jace, Architect of Thought is great for this because he can serve 3 different purposes. He can stop the aggro creatures, draw cards, and search out wincons. Unfortunately he's slow and takes 4 mana. Jace Beleren draws cards but the mill is useless, although the +2 makes him very hard to kill. Phyrexian Arena is great draw but the life loss can add up. Your choice how you want to make your drawpower, but make sure you have enough but not too much. You need to be drawing cards, but you need to be drawing the right cards. Drawing into drawpower is rather useless because while you're drawing cards, your opponent is killing you. Several cantrips in the form of BCR and 2-3 larger cards should be enough.
Now for the sideboard. Sideboards are mostly personal preference so I don't have much to suggest. This should be a mix of deck-specific cards and tweaks to adjust your curve and ratio of BCR. You're already running almost all the tech staples, so I wouldn't change much, but I don't really like Illness in the Ranks or Sowing Salt. They look like they don't do much or are too slow. Another Pithing Needle or Shadow of Doubt wouldn't hurt. A lot of people also run Relic of Progenitus, but Rakdos Charm is better in this deck. Any BDR card you don't have 4 of in the main you should be able to side into 3-4 of, except for Dreadbore (because of Terminate) and the conditional control cards because they are conditional.
Finally we have your wincons. I hate touching other people's wincons because for most people that's how they define themselves and their deck, but you really don't need 3 Cruel Ultimatum. At 7 mana you never want it in your opening hand and if you have the proper amount of draw you will draw into it often enough where you only need 1. With 1 Cruel Ultimatum, 1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, 1 Keranos, God of Storms, and 1 Sorin Markov you'll be just fine.
Good luck with your deck, I hope this was helpful. If I have said anything that is wrong or if I missed a card, please tell me so I don't make that mistake again. Have fun with this because Grixis is an awesome deck.
April 4, 2015 2:51 p.m.
Wow! This helped a lot! I have Illness in the Ranks in the sideboard to take care of any deck running Lingering Souls, and I have Sowing Salt to beat tron. I took out one Cruel Ultimatum and a Slaughter Games from the main board to make room for one more Terminate and a Serum Visions (I know this was in my out of budget section but I think I can manage one). Thanks for all the help!!! Figag
April 4, 2015 3:38 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
Ok, Sowing Salt is really good. I forgot about Tron. It can also hit a lot of decks very hard because most decks run 4 of each shock and fetch in their colors, so you can really manascrew them. Fun idea, but not good enough if this is to be a competitive deck. It's still a great sideboard. Good pick.
I still keep my position that Illness in the Ranks is not good enough because Lingering Souls is 3 mana (or 2 mana flashback) so if you factor in summoning sickness it's easy to handle it with Anger of the Gods. Cards like Lingering Souls is why I like creatures in my deck. Most aggro decks can win by simply playing more nonlands than the control deck because the control player won't be able to answer all of the threats. It's just the simple law of card advantage that governs almost every game involving control.
April 4, 2015 4:02 p.m.
I was thinking also adding a Stormbreath Dragon to the mainboard as a blocker, and itworks well with Crux of Fate. Im still not sure about this but I think one or two creatures would be good in my deck. Another option I was thinking about is Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
April 4, 2015 4:05 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #14
Not bad ideas. Both are pretty good. I personally love Necroskitter but I'm the only one. I always choose flavor over being competitive.
I'm not really sure about either card but I've seen both in decks before. Stormbreath Dragon looks like it takes too much mana to be useful. Modern is a fast format so anything that you can't use on turn 4 is too slow to be a control card (wincons are exempt from this). Tasigur, the Golden Fang is good and delve can bring him out fast, so I actually like him. 4/5 means he hits and blocks hard and I can consistently see him hitting the field on turn 4, but he has the potential for turn 3. He isn't a bad option and he doubles as a wincon, so I would say he's definitely worth running.
I'm not sure how competitive he is but recycling is in a sense drawing because it increases hand advantage. You know exactly what the possibilities are for the draw, but it will never be the card you want. That said, with delve you can manipulate the choices. He does take a fair chunk of mana, but I like him as an option. He's not cheap and is legendary so I recommend 1-2 if you are going to play him. Personally I would run him.
I still think you need to pull 1 Cruel Ultimatum. Especially if you are going to run Tasigur because he is a wincon. I also still dislike Think Twice. Too mana intensive and you have good draw in your UR spells.
April 4, 2015 4:21 p.m.
I agree completely with your suggestions, but I am going to try to build the deck in its current state to fit my current budget and then upgrade to cards like Serum Visions and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I think that he will be a great addition and his cycling ability has been very good in every deck I have seen him played in. Thanks!
April 4, 2015 4:30 p.m.
It may be out of budget for you currently, but Thoughtseize should definitely have a home in this deck. Also, you should include a bit more draw power, maybe a couple Anticipate as a budget Serum Visions, or even a couple Blue Sun's Zenith. They will help refill your hand with the cards you need to continue the stall. Cyclonic Rift may help with that. Also, I've always enjoyed AEtherling as a control finisher.
April 4, 2015 4:45 p.m.
Snapcaster is probably the next upgrade I will make, once I can afford him. Thanks for the suggestions, and nice deck! +1? TheAlexGnan
April 4, 2015 8:11 p.m.
I just opened Tasigur, the Golden Fang in a pack this morning, so I think Im going to add him to the list. What would you suggest taking out for him? Figag
April 5, 2015 9:02 a.m.
its about $8.50 actually, The cards that I still need add up to about 70 dollars right now and I want to finish the deck before upgrading to serum visions which is currently a little bit above my budget.
April 5, 2015 11:29 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #20
Congratulations on the pull!
Your sideboard is only at 14, so I'd move the Dreadbore to the side and put Tasigur, the Golden Fang in the main. A singleton of Dreadbore isn't enough but you do want access to planeswalker destruction. Tasigur's recycling should ensure you don't run out of plays until you hit a wincon.
Tasigur is the right card for the deck. This deck doesn't otherwise use the graveyard at all without him so the delve is great, he's a great blocker that can be played on turn 4 consistently, and his recycling ability ensures in the midgame you don't run out of spells before you draw a wincon. He is about on par with Serum Visions for setting up your hand. Although Serum Visions can be cast for 1 mana, Tasigur has legs which helps.
April 5, 2015 11:46 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #21
Your opinion's probably better than mine. Let's go with it!
April 5, 2015 12:11 p.m.
Yeah I think Dreadbore should stay in, but what else could I take out?
April 5, 2015 2:50 p.m.
You should definitely go for some Dismembers. It may have already been recommended (there are a lot of comments) but it seems like a must have in any black control deck to me, and is a great replacement for Dreadbore, which, frankly, is too slow. Slaughter Games and Counterflux are pure sideboard material. They're amazing sideboard cards but are nowhere near mainboard material. You also need more ways to draw through your deck. I get that things like Serum Visions are out of budget, but even Sleight of Hand is better than Think Twice, and Gitaxian Probe is a solid cantrip as well.
Also, you have a lot of mana-intensive spells. If you're able to control the board long enough to get them, that's great, but a single Cruel Ultimatum just won't end the game. I'd honestly recommend dropping Sorin Markov and maybe even Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. That way you may even be able to drop a land. Lavaclaw Reaches is also really mana-intensive, requiring you to either beat them down very, very slowly or expend massive amounts of mana each turn. I would recommend swapping it out for Creeping Tar Pit. The extra power is nice, but it also has some evasion, meaning that it's less susceptible to die during combat.
Finally, I see that you have Inquisition of Kozilek in your maybe board. Definitely get some of those, and drop Duress from your main board.
April 5, 2015 2:58 p.m.
mountainjoe13 says... #25
Tasigur is really good in a grixis deck I would definitely consider running more. He is pretty much the reason I built a Grixis deck. I have been pretty happy with mine it always does pretty well and transitions well from the early to late game. Heres a look at mine grixis ishh
HeroInMyOwnMind says... #1
It looks like you know which cards should be considered already. You "out of budget" section are among the best cards anyone might suggest. The deck is pretty good as is though. +1.
March 27, 2015 2:25 p.m.