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Commander / EDH PartyJ

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PartyJ says... #1

Today I made a new update based upon a streak of playtests. This is what I decided to change for the next part of testing:

Out:

Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper : feels too slow in this build. Coming into play tapped and too focussed on my commnader. Does not ramp towards the rest of the deck/ramp.

Mind's Eye : Feels too slow and I will never look for it when I had the chance.

Ring of Three Wishes : Even slower than Mind's Eye. It stalls my game; taking 2 turns to become active.

Swiftfoot Boots : I felt that I could drop one protection card. It felt I could miss the 'worst' one.

In:

Cavern of Souls : An easy change when I found a copy.

Path to Exile : I felt I was short on removal/boardcontrol in a few matchups. This was the best pick I could find

Worldly Tutor : I believe this 'card advantage' card gives me access to non-legendaries if I need them. More control over the resources I have at a faster pace than with Ring of Three Wishes.

Armageddon : A boardwipe which I feel suits the style of this deck. Lands in my graveyard could return and 'boost' Knight of the Reliquary. This pick is kinda tricky, but nevertheless interesting to try.

I am curious what you guys feel about these changes and if I might have missed something that would suit better.

January 25, 2016 7:11 p.m.

aznb01777 says... #2

You can check out my build if you looking for some more stuff to tutor Captain Sisay's Answers. I took out my sac outlet because my meta don't use infinite combos. But if you want it to be more competitive you can use these combos with your tooth and nail for a win con.I like to lock down with Hokori, Dust Drinker and Seedborn Muse

Control a player's turn as much as you like Mindslaver with Eternal Witness and Saffi Eriksdotter + sac outlet.

Melira, Sylvok Outcast with Woodfall Primus + sac outlet to destroy everything noncreature that you want to.

Rings of Brighthearth would give you multiple triggers with sisay along with any other thing that you have with an activated ability

January 25, 2016 7:57 p.m.

enpc says... #3

You made the right choice cutting Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper. And Cavern of Souls is super powerful. Personally, I would have cut Eight-and-a-Half-Tails over Swiftfoot Boots personally as boots gives haste which is super powerful for Sisay and means you can play something like an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and attack that turn.

I'm no the fecne about Armageddon - while you can bring back your lands / tutro more ones more easily than other decks, you do have a very high top end. My girlfriend runs Terminus in her deck as a super powerful board wipe with the new tuck change rules as you can just put Sisay in the command zone now. And it means that you can retutor big creature much faster than your opponents.

January 25, 2016 9:45 p.m.

FatherLiir says... #4

Oh gosh. See, I got here from the Advertise Your Deck thread and you have to understand I do not have the budget that you have. The fact that your deck costs about a half years worth of rent for me is mind boggling and even better is you invested your money wisely. It seems like you have a really solid deck and I feel almost unworthy to make suggestions or say that there are flaws. So really in the end no matter what +1 from me brosef.

All that being said, in my meta there's this guy, not saying who, that runs a Doran, the Siege Tower EDH deck with Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Phyresis, Reaper of Sheoldred, Tangle Angler, you get the idea he hates fun. But whenever another player busts out Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Phyrexian Unlife all his infect goes down the drain and I laugh silently. So I guess unless your meta doesn't have any Infect/Poison Counter/Proliferators in it I wouldn't worry too much about it, but Melira, Sylvok Outcast is great protection as well, even without the enchantment. With it unless they can wipe the entire boardstate then you become VERY hard to take out.

January 26, 2016 4:32 p.m.

Nomeacuerdo says... #5

Really solid, consider using Burgeoning now that I see that you have a nice land sub-theme.

January 26, 2016 8:14 p.m.

enpc says... #6

I would recommend cutting Overwhelming Stampede and Vedalken Orrery for one more land and a Sakura-Tribe Elder.

Overwhelming Stampede feels really win more as you're only going to play it when you're ahead and it's not like you pump out lots of little tokens. And with the build, Vedalken Orrery feels too slow now.

Sakura-Tribe Elder provides ramp for Sisay, can be brought back by Sun Titan and can be pitched to Survival of the Fittest.

January 26, 2016 10:33 p.m.

PartyJ says... #7

aznb01777 : Thanks for the interesting comment! Always appreciated :-)

I have the same thing in my meta; infinite combo's are not appreciated and take away the fun for most people I am playing against. So I avoid them as well.

I like the combo you presented with Seedborn Muse, but I'm not sure if I can fit it in using this build. A maybeboard suggestion for later :)

Rings of Brighthearth I once had on my maybeboard. But I have to figure out if it's something that will give me enough speed and advantage. The cards currently in this build are not so easy to replace. Maybeboard stuff for a next update :) Thanks!

January 28, 2016 4:50 p.m.

PartyJ says... #8

FatherLiir : Thanks for your thoughts about this creation :)

This a project that is running for more than a year already. So most funds have been carefully planned and thank god not invested all at the same time, or I would go broke xD. I also have the 'luck' that I play this game since fourth edition hit the streets, so many older cards I still had in my possesion and were acquired when the were relatively cheap :-)

If infect really was a thing in my meta, then Melira, Sylvok Outcast surely has to be in my sideboard. But I have never seen a deck like that here yet. Thanks for the idea nevertheless, as I never know when they will surprise me with such a build. My answer is there now xD

January 28, 2016 4:57 p.m.

PartyJ says... #9

Nomeacuerdo : That pick I had in my hands some while ago. But the downside of Burgeoning is that you are depending on your opponent to play. Havin enough ramp atm makes me wonder if this card would be better than any ramp card currently here. Drawing it endgame is pretty lacking...

Should you change it for a ramp card present? Does it combo with Crucible of Worlds since it explicitly states they have to be in your hand? I believe not...

January 28, 2016 5:04 p.m.

enpc says... #10

No, Burgeoning doesn't work with Crucible. As you mentioned, when the ability triggers the only zone you can put a land into play from is your hand.

If Crucible said something like "you may treat lands in your graveyard as if they were in your hand" it might be different but that's not the case.

Generally, you want to run Burgeoning in a deck that has a high rate of card draw to take full advantage of each one of your opponent's land plays. It's quite common to see it in Damia, Sage of Stone decks.

January 28, 2016 5:12 p.m.

PartyJ says... #11

enpc : Thanks again :-)

The reason that I choose to keep Eight-and-a-Half-Tails is that he can also protect other permanents that could be vital in smashing my opponents. And he is also tutorable, while I have to 'hope' for Swiftfoot Boots to show himself.

I am also on the fence about which kind of wipe proves to be the best choice for this deck. I think you are right about the Armageddon and Terminus comparison.

I had some groundbreaking wins with Overwhelming Stampede recently with matchups that tended to be close. So I was very happy with this result.

What I do feel is that Vedalken Orrery is indeed too slow. I wasn't really experiencing any advantage. This has to go.

What I also experienced, is that the ramp is running very smoothly. In 9 of the 10 games I had a super ramp. Do you really believe that I need even more ramp? As I also experienced a few games where I would like to have a legendary 'card' for a situation I barely handled. Like in the range of 4 till 6 mana (midgame)

January 28, 2016 5:14 p.m.

aznb01777 says... #12

Even with out the combo, seedborn muse is good on its own since it will allow you to get multiple activation of sisay during your opponent's turn. Having Vedalken orrery with seedborn muse is pretty OP. I personally would take out Sylvan Safekeeper it really doesn't do anything once you have Asceticism and you have other protection/shroud/indestructible sources. Other than that I would take out scroll rack (preferably removed) or sensei's top once you have one the other doesn't do anything for you plus sisay is suppose to be your tutor for whatever you need. Other than that I encourage you to run terminus or Hallowed Burial

January 28, 2016 5:38 p.m.

Tolis says... #13

Time of Need as an extra tutor maybe? Great work, though!!

January 28, 2016 5:54 p.m.

enpc says... #14

aznb01777: Sylvan Safekeeper is super powerful early game as he protects Sisay and late game has really amazing synergy with Titania, Protector of Argoth. The other benefit is that late game you can pitch it to Survival of the Fittest - yes this is a big deal and yes survival wins games.

Both Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top are amazing. Sure, there is a certain level of redundancy having both of them out but then the same arguement can be made for Sylvan Library too. But for the majority of games, you only have access to one of them.

PartyJ: More rmap is always good. And again, you have to ability to pitch things like tribe elder late game. Or sometimes you just want to shuffle your library.

You mentioned feeling a bit weaker on the midgmae plays (4-6 mana). With lots of ramp, what you end up with is 10-12 mana whilhe everybody else is still taking their sweet arse time and then you see their 6 drop with your Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.

Plus yo ualready have Titania, Protector of Argoth, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Dragonlord Dromoka, etc which all fill this space.

Out of curiosity though, what do mean by "barely handled"? as in you feel like you need some better utility legends?

January 28, 2016 7:20 p.m.

aznb01777 says... #15

how about running an Enlightened Tutor then? to fetch either sensei top or whatever enchantment/artifact you would need. Aside from that I'm curious about why are you running Oracle of Mul Daya? Especially since you are already running crucible and stripmine, plus its one of the best ramp.

January 28, 2016 8:32 p.m.

enpc says... #16

Azusa, Lost but Seeking is tutorable, cheaper to play and better at recurring lands. That plus Exploration provide more than enough of the effect, especially in a non blue deck. Without the card draw support, it's a bit much.

January 28, 2016 8:37 p.m.

aznb01777 says... #17

Aside from that what you think about running Emeria, The Sky Ruin it looks like you should have no problem getting 7 plains with Sylan Safekeeper and Flagstones of Trokair and mana ramps you got going.

January 28, 2016 8:41 p.m.

Rinsewind says... #18

I think Living Plane could be a potent card in your deck - Combine it with Linvala, Keeper of Silence or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and it locks opponents out of their lands while you get to keep your own. Its more easily tutored for (Enlightened Tutor + Idyllic Tutor and Sterling Grove if you wanted to go the whole hog) and less mana intensive than Armageddon + Avacyn, Angel of Hope.

I'd also suggest considering Winding Canyons. Its like Vedalken Orrery's little brother, and it gets past Gaddock Teeg (I don't know how relevant that is in your deck - In mine Teeg is one of the first two Sisay targets so its very important to me). Given the cost of your top-end creatures the Orrery is probably better than Canyons for you, but since its a land you could get away with including both ;)

Do you find Heliod, God of the Sun useful? He was one of the first cuts in my deck, I never really got to playtest him.

February 6, 2016 11:24 p.m.

PartyJ says... #19

Tolis : Thanks for your suggestion. In an older build I had Time of Need present. But having sisay's power available most of the time gives me better options for this card slot. I wanted to go competitive, so this cut I had to make.

enpc : I had some rough situations where I got countered and was facing Invoke Prejudice. I was lacking removal in those games.

aznb01777 : Thanks for your suggestions... Emeria, The Sky Ruin the sky ruin is great, but Im only running 4 basic plains and a few dual lands that count towards the plains type. I would never hit the 7.

Rinsewind : Nice ideas, but most I have to postpone for a next possible update. I took a swing in some changes which will be implemented soon. The card I do like and will be on my maybeboard is Living Plane

But after many games I also felt that Heliod, God of the Sun is lacking too much compared to what else I might have available. Winding Canyons I do like and knowing that my Orrery will be gone I feel this land could become handy at some moments. Thanks!

February 8, 2016 8:08 a.m.

enpc says... #20

Yet another reason to recommend running Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre alongside newlamog. It means you have yet another tutorable removal spell. Similarly, Oblation is very good and lets you protect your own stuff from exile.

February 8, 2016 8:17 a.m.

PartyJ says... #21

Many games later I believe that the following cards are not the best choices for this build:


And now the cards for the next round of playtesting:

  • Swiftfoot Boots : This has been a coinflip between this card or an extra ramp card like Sakura-Tribe Elder. The haste as enpc has mentioned is something that could make more difference than the extra ramp.

  • Terminus : A better mass removal option being suggested. Now the playtest for the first results :-)

  • Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre : I removed a wincon and this wincon card has been suggested. Why not, the removal is something that will take place, even when countered xD

  • Seedborn Muse : Nice interaction with my commander and my new land. It's potent enough on it's own to deserve some playtesting.

  • Winding Canyons : I would like this to see in play when Orrery is leaving my build

February 8, 2016 4:11 p.m.

PartyJ says... #22

Is Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger a card that could add the next level of ramp to this deck?

A mana doubler which can easily be tutored by Sisay could help me speed up endgame for the final (eldrazi) blow. What do you think?

February 12, 2016 4:53 a.m.

enpc says... #23

Seems bad. You need 8 mana to begin with (which is like only 3 short of an Ulamog anyway) and it pulls way too much hate. On top of that, you have to cut other stuff (like low end ramp) to play it. And that just seems counter intuitive.

February 12, 2016 5:58 a.m.

PartyJ says... #24

I understand your opinion, but what I experienced so far is that after the initial 'opening' ramp I get stuck on the normal pace. If I can double up I can create a window to get twice the amount of hate out. Somehow it feels that there is something 'missing' for a smooth play each game (consistency).

February 12, 2016 2:47 p.m.

enpc says... #25

Sure, but the issue is that a) Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger costs 8 mana (which is Avacyn mana or only 2 off a Kozilek) and b) will mos likely get removed the turn you play it (espcially if you're already getting hated on). So it's kind of a catch 22 scenario with Vorinclex. Couple that with the fact that Zendikar Resurgent costs 7, Mana Reflection costs 6 and while Mirari's Wake is only 5, you're not going to be playing it until a few turns later anyway. And all three you have to draw into.

From what you're saying and looking at the deck, the issue is that you don't have enough land. You run 16 ramp spells however 4 of which require you to either play or pitch land (Exploration, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Mox Diamond, Lotus Cobra). for that, 35 lands is not enough. I would recommend cutting Bow of Nylea and Seedborn Muse for two more lands. I also think you can tweak your ramp suite a bit. I would replace Cultivate with Sakura-Tribe Elder - I know I've pushed this card before but that's because of the value it brings to the deck. And being 2 mana over 3 means Sisay one turn earlier.

I also think that you should replace Scapeshift with more ramp. While Scpeshift is good when you're ahead and have Titania down, but other than that it's underwhelming and not actual ramp. Replace it with Rampant Growth for another way to get Sisay down turn 3. Unless you feel like splashing for Mana Crypt and then get Mana Crypt. I'm also on the fence about Saffi Eriksdotter. While she is amazing (I should know, I have a deck built around her), in this build she seems like she would slow you down. You have to waste a turn tutoring her to protect the thing you're going to play. Again, she could be replaced with more ramp to help for a faster Sisay and sooner big threats.

February 12, 2016 6:06 p.m.

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