Casual EDH Custom Tourney - Submissions Page

Commander / EDH* NoviceMagician

SCORE: 12 | 883 COMMENTS | 4790 VIEWS


NoviceMagician says... #1

Just letting you all know I will be gone for most of the day today (the 11th) due to some family reasons. Sorry for any inconvenices.

July 11, 2015 12:42 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #2

Hello, all. I briefly have all of my internet capabilities back, so let's address some complaints and some of the possible solutions that have been suggested.

First, dredge is a powerful mechanic, yes. But let us consider WHY it dominated Extended, because it does not and cannot be as broken in EDH. In the classic Dredge decks of the past, you plan to empty your library into the graveyard and win with Laboratory Maniac or Dread Return. You do this by hitting several copies of high-valued dredge cards into your graveyard like Golgari Grave-Troll or Stinkweed Imp, and so you can often mill ten or fifteen cards off of a single draw effect (like Cephalid Coliseum). Often, if you can have a critical mass of dredge cards in your deck, milling one with your first replaced draw can lead you to another powerful dredge.

However, this strategy CANNOT work in EDH (trust me, I play a partially dredge EDH already, it isn't strong). Whereas 15 cards would be a full quarter of your deck in 60-card standard formats, it's a much less impressive fraction in 99-card EDH. Furthermore, each card I draw can only dredge one card, meaning that with a Cephalid Coliseum (a very powerful draw effect), I can only hit one THIRTY-THIRD of my deck rather than a quarter. Dredge becomes much less effective when it is A) in a singleton format, B) in a larger deck, and C) only hitting one card dredged per turn, without the ability to chain them.

So we've established that my potential deck with Sidisi is UNABLE to play in the dominating way that Legacy Dredge does. Instead, it allows me to get back things that have died already, and makes my threats hard to kill - more or less a utility commander, and actually less scary than several things you all have suggested. While this is pretty powerful, remember that this is actually less powerful than a reanimator deck would be normally because A) I have to give up my draws to do so, and B) I still have to pay the costs associated with casting them normally! For example, a reanimator deck in the same colors could grab a T3 Terastodon with Animate Dead. I have to wait until I can cast things normally, keeping things more-or-less on curve. And you also can predict my moves, because my graveyard is open information.

Now, let's move on to individual cards. SirFowler said Greed is overpowered with my Sidisi. He is not entirely correct - consider that Phyrexian Reclamation exists, does almost the exact same thing in this scenario, and is still not powerful enough to show up in most EDH decks that play Black. The only difference is that I can grab Enchantments and Artifacts as well, and to be honest, that's still less overpowered than many commanders that exist in Magic in real life (considering that I have to pay for cards I return, and waste a draw to get them back). One could even argue that using Shriekmaw or Seal of Doom in this context is less powerful than Attrition is normally, because I lose a potential draw each time I use them, which is a BIG DEAL. As any black player would note, a creature is worth less than a card. And if I want to take advantage of my commander, I'll have to use almost entirely permanent cards, limiting my access to many powerful deck-building options.

Now, let's consider how it plays with the other commanders that people have made. I agree with Casey4321 that it kind of nerfs his/her sacrifice-based commander, because I'm not strongly hurt by it. However, I in turn am entirely screwed over by Maringam's Muramasa, because I will have plenty of things that die repeatedly. For that matter, if Casey4321 builds their deck well, to capitalize on death triggers (for reference: Massacre Wurm), I might still be at a disadvantage because more things die for me, even if they don't stay dead. Some commanders trump others in turn, like Rock-Paper-Scissors. It's a natural way that the game works.

Now let's talk modifications. I accept that everyone appears to be unhappy with my commander as-is, so clearly changes have to be made. I would be okay with changing her to only work on the battlefield, so you can nerf the effect by killing her in response to my card-draw effects, messing up all of my plans. I would be okay with making it only work during my turn, so I can't just abuse instant-speed effects (though remember that unless I dredge something with flash, I can't play it unless it's my turn anyway). I would be okay with making her cost one or more, so I can't use the ability until a bit later in the game. However, I would NOT be okay with changing it to only dredge one card per turn. Beyond the fact that it would make the card text into a verbose nightmare, it also makes my commander so weak that I would just lose immediately.

And finally, I recognize that this is a casual tournament. This commander could be powerful (though not as powerful as you're all thinking) if the deck was built ruthlessly. I do not plan to do so. I will not include Recurring Nightmare. I will not include Grave Pact. I will not include Phyrexian Negator, or any overpowered early-costed threat. Or, for that matter, any of the other cards that could make this unfair. I want to have fun, while not hobbling my commander to unusability, as many of the proposed modifications would do. My commander is powerful enough to be interesting, but not game-breaking.

I welcome your responses, but please read this all before answering if you don't mind. Sorry for the wall of text; I had a lot to respond to. And if you respond, I will read it, but please recognize that it will take me a while to get back to you because my computer is broken AND I have no internet where I'm staying.

July 11, 2015 6:17 p.m.

Casey4321 says... #3

See my sack deck is running Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos . I limited myself to cards I own in real life. But having listened to Daedelus's argument, I feel like he brings up good points.

July 11, 2015 6:47 p.m.

NoviceMagician says... #4

Alright everyone, I have a few things here:

1.) I still need decklists from 6tennis, KalvinHobbez, and ninjaman16782.

2.) Sidisi discussion is still open, is anyone still concerned? Simply telling me if you are still concerned will suffice, we could enable chat if you'd like too, don't be shy, I don't bite... Often. XD

3.) Sorry for the day's absence. I am facing a lot of stress IRL, and I needed the day of binge watching and comfort food, but it didn't help much. Until I get past the roadblock I'm facing, my activity will be kept to a minimum. I will still be on for reasons regard this tourney, but if you look to me for any other T/O things, then I will be absent form those. Sorry for any inconvenience. (For anyone who is worried if this may affect the tourney, don't be, it won't.)

July 13, 2015 1:02 a.m.

KalvinHobbez says... #5

Man I've been trying to make the Dipper Slug have a chance but he feels still so awkward....and I learned a simple Mutavault will negate him....and I don't want to run a bunch of land destruction and be a dick. I don't think there is a huge surplus of cards that have this kind of ability to just waste mana into that easily, though...I might just run permanent destruction or something I guess?...

July 13, 2015 2:18 a.m.

NoviceMagician says... #6

Yeah, KalvinHobbez, if you are uncomfortable with your commander, you are more than welcome to change it. My main priority is for everyone to have fun, so I don't want anyone playing with a commander they can't work with. So you are always welcome to change, and you are actually welcome to go with an actual WotC card too if it is more to your liking. It's up to you what you'd like to do with your commander, just keep us posted. :)

And thank you LiveForChaos for the idea posts.

July 13, 2015 2:39 a.m.

KalvinHobbez says... #7

Nah if I join this tourney it's definitely with one of my many custom commanders...that makes it difficult to choose :c I could maybe get a couple of my favorites and you guys decide which one might be neat to see?

July 13, 2015 5:45 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #8

LiveForChaos: why is that Commander easy to transform? It's actually a bit of a hard condition to fulfill. And the ultimate is actually very weak, so I think it's totally fine for it to activate in three turns. The planes walker is balanced, if not too weak already.

July 13, 2015 10 a.m.

The dredge thing still scares me. Although, what is the current version? If I remember correctly it is only permanants that get dread and if she is on the field or in the yard. Yeah, still horrifying. Howling Mine and Damnation and he's set... Drop the board wipe, draw and dredge his creatures.. And with all the hand fixing in , it is still too powerful. If it was ONLY on the field or ONLY in the yard and once or twice a turn it would be different

July 13, 2015 10:58 a.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #10

ninjaman16782: At the moment it's that permanents get dredge, and only if she is in the graveyard. Which does make my life harder, because I have to include a large number of sacrifice cards in my deck to turn on my commander.

Let's examine the scenario you gave: I play Damnation to kill everything (at which point Muramasa is infinitely more powerful than mine, btw). I have a Howling Mine, so in the next turn cycle, I get to dredge two things and everyone gets to draw two cards instead. I have a slight advantage, but nothing near what you are thinking. (Plus I don't plan to play Damnation because it's unfun, but you'll have to take my word for that one.)

And actually, I'm a bit limited for hand-sculpting in these colors, since most anything doing that in Blue is a non-permanent and thus I will almost certainly mill it rather than using it (and so I wouldn't play it).

Under normal circumstances I won't be drawing more than two or three cards per turn anyway. My commander is less powerful than many canonical cards, even though it uses a mechanic that was broken under entirely different circumstances.

EDIT: LiveForChaos ninja'd me :)

July 13, 2015 1:43 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #11

LiveForChaos maybe -2? That would bring it into line with Sarkhan Vol.

July 13, 2015 1:44 p.m.

LiveForChaos not mad, just checking. I couldn't check because of some internet problems and my computer breaking which is why I asked. And for the record green has graveyard retrieval like Revive, there are plenty of ways to refuel a library, and cards like Demonic Tutor or oh gosh with sidisi Diabolic Intent easily get you what you need. Black and green are also amazing ramp colors, and re animator is a black staple, Rise of the Dark Realms, Liliana Vess, Animate Dead, etc.

LiveForChaos I would appreciate you not forcing emotions onto me in what looked like an attempt to demean my argument. It is hurtful and I would hope you do not to that kind of thing in the future. And I am going to preemptively address this, no, I am not butt hurt about this. I simply do not enjoy people using fallacious reasoning to insult me. If that was not your intent I apologize for ranting but that IS how it came across to me and I want to point it out to you.

July 13, 2015 2:27 p.m. Edited.

And in case anyone wants to say I am taking chaos out of context, "ninjaman16782 You should look at the card before you get mad about it. It was fixed and the abilities will only activate if she's in the graveyard.". And to back up my claim about fallacious reasoning, I quote the IEP on Ad Hominem fallacies

"Your reasoning contains this fallacy if you make an irrelevant attack on the arguer and suggest that this attack undermines the argument itself."While not exactly an "attack" in this case it fits the bill. It was an irrelevant association and did nothing to address my points, simply implied i was mad and therefore wrong

July 13, 2015 2:33 p.m.

Also, Daedalus19876. I see what you are saying but I still think that no LIMIT on dredge is really powerful. Blue is notorious for card draw and like JA has said before it can turn your graveyard into a hand. I Understand you more than likely disagree and honestly a lot of this will depend on what cards you use. I do however see you are wanting this to be fun and trust you won't just run every card that would make her broken

July 13, 2015 2:35 p.m.

UpsetYoMama says... #15

I think people are forgetting that this is a casual custom tournament.

July 13, 2015 2:45 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #16

ninjaman16782: Thank you for your trust; I don't intend to play anything absurd here. Actually, I'm limiting myself to nearly all permanents, which is making the deck building a slow process...

I definitely see what you are talking about. However, from my perspective, there are two major limits on my use of dredge in this context. The first is the loss of card draw - although this was insufficient to curtail its power in 60-card formats, I feel like it's a much bigger deal here. And second is that it is dredge 1, because I can't create the kind of milling chain reaction that dredge is famous for.

(shrug) YMMV.

July 13, 2015 2:50 p.m.

LiveForChaos Ok, sorry for getting up in arms. I have a pet peeve for people misrepresenting and demeaning me, as it has happened many times before. I DID however jump to conclusions and apologize

July 13, 2015 2:54 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #18

(group hug)

July 13, 2015 2:57 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #19

The idea is that some opponent tapped a creature during your turn, she can transform.

I think the goal was something more like "if a creature your opponent controls became tapped this turn", which would allow you to transform her off of cards that tap opponents' creatures (like Sleep).

July 13, 2015 3:06 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #20

I made that card, but my computer is broken now. Someone else would have to remake her if it would be changed...

I insist the flavor text remains the same. I can link to the art for anyone who wants to take in doing that.

July 13, 2015 3:11 p.m.

SirFowler says... #21

I'll make it for you. I'm not doing anything right now.

Edit: Just let me know what the final product will be. I still am not sure what we ended up on agreeing with this card.

July 13, 2015 3:14 p.m. Edited.

Daedalus19876 says... #22

We should wait for 6tennis to show up before changing either.

July 13, 2015 3:17 p.m.

I haven't been paying attention... Has anyone wanted me to change my commander?

July 13, 2015 3:23 p.m.

SirFowler says... #24

I realize that the mobile version was not letting me see your commanders, but for some reason I can see everybody's commander except for Casey's. Is the link broken to yours?

July 13, 2015 3:32 p.m.

Daedalus19876 says... #25

LiveForChaos: I think that you lost a Tap sign in your revisions.

July 13, 2015 3:32 p.m.

Please login to comment