Hey, Sage of Fables works well with Marchesa, Viscera, Haruspex, Disciple of Bolas , Puppeteer Clique , Sower of Temptation , etc. It also can be a draw engine by removing +1/+1 counters from your creatures.

To help the less than ideal manabase consider Trophy Mage just to tutor for Chromatic Lantern ? Or she can get Ashnod's. Consider Brainstorm , Ponder , Impulse , Read the Bones to help to find lands or other cards? Another way to help the manabase is with more mana rocks Rakdos Signet , Izzet Signet , Dimir Signet , Fellwar Stone .

Lands that won't break the bank to consider adding: Exotic Orchard , Choked Estuary , Foreboding Ruins , Grixis Panorama , Ash Barrens , Dimir Aqueduct , Rakdos Carnarium , Izzet Boilerworks , Reliquary Tower , Smoldering Marsh , Sunken Hollow , Shivan Reef . Most of these lands have good interaction with basic lands since there's a lot of them here and I suggest adding more in place of the lands that ETB (enter the battlefield) tapped such as Urborg Volcano . The Bounce lands (Aqueduct, Carnarium, Boilerworks) work well with basic lands and other lands that can ETB untapped.

Consider this budget manabase:

• Command Tower
• Exotic Orchard
• Grixis Panorama
• Ash Barrens
• Crumbling Necropolis
• Guildmages' Forum
• Opal Palace
• Evolving Wilds
• Choked Estuary
• Foreboding Ruins
• Dimir Aqueduct
• Rakdos Carnarium
• Izzet Boilerworks
• Reliquary Tower
• Smoldering Marsh
• Sunken Hollow
• Shivan Reef
• 6x Island
• 8x Swamps
• 6x Mountain

If you like some of suggestions I offer help to make cuts. By the way there's 2x Skullclamp here ;)

Good luck with your deck.

Hi Multimedia, Thanks a lot for all the feedback! :)

I have been looking a bit on Sage of Fables and I can see the benefits, however, I don't it is worth as it would primarily only work for Marchesa unless I put in other wizards as you mention. A card i have been debating to include is Novijen Sages as i get the counter on my creatures and has the same draw effect! the reason im not sure about that one is the CMC cost. - But do you think Sage of Fables is worth to include without the other Wizards?

Trophy Mage looks pretty amazing, especially if i can get counter on her and keep using her ETB to also get talisman's etc. - I do have a brainstorm lying around i might include, and as you point out i have been missing quite a few land drops with this deck so far so might be a good idea :)

I have considered the Signet, and the reason i picked Talismans instead is that they can help me get my health low to benefit from dethrone, and i might think that having both signets and talismans i a bit too much? maybe add some more lands instead?

Thanks for your tips on manabase! this is were i struggle the most.. I do have all the bounce lands i think, but haven't included them as i never saw anyone else play them at my LGS, so i figured they weren't good - but will include them thanks :) and thanks for the other lands suggestions! they are way more affordable than shock lands etc.

Hey, you're welcome.

I think the interaction of Sage with Marchesa is alone enough reason to play Sage. Ordinary this would not be the case, but Marchesa is your Commander. You have easy access to her that means you just have to draw Sage. Vedalken AEthermage can tutor for Sage or any other Wizard such as Puppeteer Clique . Sage's ability as a draw engine is also really good, not to be underestimated especially with Ashnods as a sac outlet.

The interaction of Sage and Puppeteer Clique is quite powerful because Clique is a Wizard and has persist; it's another good reason to add Sage. When Clique ETB after dying it gets a -1/-1 counter, but with Sage this counter is canceled out by a +1/+1 counter. With a sac outlet such as Viscera Seer / Ashnod's Altar / Goblin Bombardment this interaction is an infinite sacrifice loop because Clique never ends up with a -1/-1 counter. As well as stealing all your opponents creatures in graveyards, attacking with them for the turn and then exiling them EOT. Sage + Clique + Viscera Seer is infinite scry as well as an infinite sac loop. Sage + Clique + Ashnod's Altar is an infinite colorless mana combo as well as an infinite sac loop. Sage + Clique + Goblin Bombardment is a game winning combo resulting in infinite damage to each opponent.

If you add Marchesa to the Sage + Clique + Ashnods/Viscera interaction then you permanently steal your opponents creatures from graveyards who get a +1/+1 counter after attacking for the turn. As long as you sac those creatures who have a +1/+1 counter on them before the EOT. They die, but come back onto the battlefield under your control thanks to Marchesa. These creatures changed zones, this creates a new instance of each creature therefore they will not be exiled EOT from Clique. If you add Zulaport Cutthroat then just like Bombardment you make all your opponents lose infinite life and you gain infinite life because of the infinite sac loop.

Trophy Mage can only tutor for an artifact that has a CMC of 3. Only Lantern and Ashnods currently here. You could add other 3 CMC artifact such as Commander's Sphere , etc., but honestly Trophy is still good with only having two possible targets because those two targets are really good cards for your deck. Trophy can just be sac fodder if you don't have an artifact to search for, she already did her job.

I would play the Signets along with the Talismans :) You're right to play Talismans before you play Signets, but Signets are still good mana rocks. Marchesa is a four drop this makes her a prime creature for two or less CMC mana rocks to be able to ramp and play her turn three.

I really like the idea with the infinite combo with Sage and Puppeteer! are there any other wizards with persist that could be worth to include then? and thanks for all the great suggestions to combos, i have to consider that :D the only thing about it i dont like is the fact that my playground usually is pretty casual so comboing out is not always the most fun :)

And true with the Trophy Mage, dont know why i read it as 3 or below lol - but already ordered it! :)

I have to consider the signets as i can see that getting marchesa out early is a huge benefit - but im really not sure what i should cut.. Do you have any thing that stands out as being the weakest in my deck?

Thanks again!

You don't have to use Sage + Clique + sac outlet as a game winning infinite combo :)

Just being able to steal all your opponents creatures from their own graveyards and attack your opponents with those creatures is amusing and powerful. Could this combo be game winning? Sure if you do it in the late game and all your opponents have a lot of creatures in their graveyards, but it's not a sure thing that it will win you the game. It's essentially just a powerful play.

Even if you get to steal only one or two creatures this is still excellent value. At any time you can end the infinite sac loop of Clique by choosing to not sac her. Best case is you would do this when your opponents no longer have any creatures in their graveyards to steal... At any time you can also remake the loop as long as you have Sage + Clique + sac outlet on the battlefield.

River Kelpie is also good with the Clique combo to draw cards, even your whole deck if you want to. To stop drawing stop sacing Clique ;) If your playgroup is against game winning combos then make sure you can break the loop you have created which is thankfully easy to do with Clique.

Goblin Bombardment can instead of targeting a player can target a creature to do the damage this means you don't have to kill your opponents with Bombardment. Bombardment is also a two drop no mana cost sac outlet which is very good. Zulaport can gain you life which is helpful especially because Unspeakable Symbol is an important card. Ashnods will make infinite colorless mana, but you don't have any cards that can take real advantage of this to win the game therefore use the combo to make some mana to help to cast some cards and then end the loop. It doesn't have to be a game ending play.

Flayer of the Hatebound + Sage + Ashnods is infinite draw and damage to all your opponents because Hatebound has undying and Sage can remove the +1/+1 counter from Hatebound to draw a card. Use the two mana generated by Ashnods to pay for Sage's ability. This combo can be infinite, but like Clique you can break the loop by choosing to not sac Hatebound. Like Bombardment Hatebound can also use the damage to target creatures instead of a player which is helpful if you don't want to kill your opponents.

Glen Elendra Archmage is the other Wizard with persist that can be used instead of Clique in the combo, but she's an expensive price card and not as fun as Clique :) Another option to make it so all your creatures are Wizards and have persist is including these two cards: Arcane Adaptation and Cauldron of Souls . Arcane makes all your creatures Wizards, even creatures in your library and Souls can give all your creatures persist until EOT, but it's a another five drop... With Adaptation, Sage becomes amazing as a +1/+1 counter engine since any creature that ETB will get a counter since it's a Wizard.

Later on today I'll leave a comment with my advice about what cards you can consider cutting as well as some additional suggestions of cards to add :)

Hey :)

I like your other combo ideas that Can be very powerfull but not gamebreaking :D and also The fact that i Can stop The combo again is a good point :)

I also might invest in Glen as it would be Nice with some counterspells!

But yea Many great suggestions! Now The problem is what to cut :D i have already cuttet a few cards with modular, but after playing with Them i Can see why they Can be strong in this deck.. whats your opinion on moduler cards for a marchesa deck?

Hey Saint, I haven't had enough time to look over your deck enough yet to give detailed suggestions of cuts.

Some advice however is cut cards that don't give repeatable value. Key is repeatable. Creatures should be the priority because they are best with Marchesa. But this doesn't mean play 40+ creatures, still want to have a nice balance between card types. 30-35 creatures, 36 lands with 8x mana rocks is something to consider.

Captivating Crew is a creature who's ability is a repeatable steal creature effect. Crew is also a mana sink which is a good thing to have in Commander. Zealous Conscripts is also a creature, she can give you possible repeatable value of stealing your opponents permanents. These are more powerful than other cards that give you the same one shot effect such as Act of Treason , Threaten , Traitorous Blood , Slave of Bolas , etc. These cards are fine if you have reliable ways to recur them to cast them again, but you don't have that. You don't really need them because you have cards like Crew and Conscripts.

Mark of Mutiny is the only card with this type of one shot effect I would keep because it's only three mana and also puts a counter on the creature you steal which is good with Marchesa. Don't misunderstand some budget cards that give you a one shot effect are excellent, worth playing, such as tutors ( Gamble ), instant removal ( Chaos Warp ), counterspells ( Arcane Denial ) and low mana cost draw spells ( Brainstorm ), but these cards need to be powerful if you're only getting to use them once. In fact consider adding all of these?

The next place to look for cuts are the four and five drops since there's a lot of them and you don't need them all. All the four and five drops are good cards, but some are better than others. I honestly think you can consider ending the creature curve at six drops with Flayer of the Hatebound . The majority of the power level here is coming from the four and five drops. Can keep Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker as the top end since he's repeatable removal and steal your opponents creatures. The avg. CMC of your deck is currently 3.6 which is in my opinion high. Try to get this number less than 3.0 for smoother game play.

I don't think cards with graft in Grixis colors are worth playing. Graft as an ability for the +1/+1 counters synergies is lackluster. Consider Olivia, Mobilized for War ? She can be a repeatable source of +1/+1 counters for creatures as long as you have cards to discard.

More later :)

Hi Multimedia,

Sorry i haven't had the time to answer you because of exams etc. :D I have tried to cut some cards and add some cards, in the meanwhile i did get my hans on Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos however im not sure if both should be included? I have also gotten: Altar of Dementia Disciple of Bolas Lightning Greaves and Phyrexian Arena so these has been added as well..

I still want some room for Brainstorm Counterspell Terminate etc. however i am lost of ideas from what to cut from here

I have also been sure to cut the lands that gave me 1 life as those obviously gave me some dethrone problems

Core set 13 had some rings that were equipments that might work to increase your 1/1 counters. Ring of Xathrid , Ring of Valkas and Ring of Evos Isle are the ones in your commander colors. They are really inexpensive.

Hey Nocholas

Those actually look pretty neat, Will definetly give them a try for that price, thanks

I also have a marchesa deck that seeks to take stuff.

I would prioritize functions like this:

1) Losing my own life to keep others the throne 2) sacrifice outlets to sac creatures with +1/+1 counters on them 3) solid ETB effects to capitalize on returns to battle field 4) stealing stuff

when i build decks, I try to have synergy with more than one of the deck's themes if possible. cards like Bloodflow Connoisseur are cool, and seem like they fit perfectly with marchesa, however other than a sac outlet, it does not do too much to forward the meta of a stealy-stuff marchesa deck. For me, Drana, Liberator of Malakir is similar. The effect is after attacking, so it is not that helpful to the dethrone shenanigans.

also, for this deck, you may want to consider Sepulchral Primordial . if you must choose between this and molten primordial, I would go with this, unless you can be sure to put a +1/+1 and sac the creatures you steal.

I accidentally submitted before i said a few more things. If you can get a hold of Sneak Attack that would be perfect.

for WAR, I may even consider using the new Ilharg, Raze boar or any creature that has a dash effect.

so keywords that work well with marchesa are undying, dash, riot and some good mechanics that work are free sac outlets, ETB effects and steal stuff. Also, Bounce effects work well, and even Conjurer's Closet would do well. something else to consider, if you have +1/+1 counters on creatures, do they give you added benefit when they die? Think of Chasm Skulker

Hey GMD :)

i think Bloodflow Connoisseur just has too much value to cut as it can defend it self (by having +1/+1) and is a sac outlet, however i do see your point. I think you have misunderstood Drana, Liberator of Malakir however, i have copied this from a ruling: "The +1/+1 counter won’t change how much damage Drana or any other attacking creature with first strike or double strike deals during that combat damage step. However, the +1/+1 counters that are put on attacking creatures without first strike will affect the damage those creatures deal during the regular combat damage step." so in fact all other creatures than Drana will get +1/+1 this combat unless they have first strike themselves - i find this really handy for 2 reasons: first of it can help defend the board state if we cant get the dethrone trigger and secondly it doubles the +1/+1 counter if we do have the dethrone trigger as well.

As i have gone pretty heavy on sac outlets, as the deck is so depended on them, i rarely have problems with Molten Primordial and also due to his high CMC he is often times a game closing card that will take out at least one enemy - however, i have considered cutting him due to his CMC.

and yes Sneak Attack !!! i really do need this card, but due to its cost i will wait a bit or hope i can trade me to it. Ilharg, Raze boar sure does seem interesting, my biggest concern is his CMC, where i think that once i can get him out i will have emtied my hands for creatures, but i might be wrong and he is definetly worth giving a try :)

i recommend Dauthi Mindripper and Thalakos Deceiver

Wow both of them are brutal! No idea why i have not seen them before for marchesa - especially Thalakos Deceiver . Thanks for the tip :)

Oh WOW! i definitely did misinterpret Drana.

for cards like Bloodflow Connoisseur i get it, free sac outlet and counter synergy, however, to get the most value I would want stuff that does other things when they are sacked since marchesa will ultimately give them a counter. BUT that is not a huge difference in the long run, and more of player choice at that point i suppose. Thalakos deceiver and Dauthi mindripper are perfect examples of what i think synergize stronger for Marchesa than bloodflow (as far as their activiated ability is concerned, since their sac is focused on them). again, comes down to preference.

If molten primordial is strictly a win-con for you, then possibly consider Insurrection ? 1 mana more to get everything? then sac them all to keep them? In my current build i have that and Sepulchral Primordial since it is easier to keep the stuff.

raze boar becomes essentially a sneak attack. so the fact that it costs 5 is not much different than sneak attack which is 5 mana to get the first creature out. so you trade off a bit to get the trample body of the boar for the split up cost and repeat ability of sneak attack. it seems like solid redundancy to me though with the volume of sac outlets you have.

another great card, that i think is worth the cost, is Krav, the Unredeemed . cheap sac outlet, counters and some sick card draw.

any way, looking over your deck and comparing it to mine, I have much to consider and reconsider. :) thank you for putting in the time to respond to me, it is so very helpful!

i agree that Thalakos Deceiver is probably just too strong not to include, but the issues is that it can only sack itself, lets say someones tries to Path to Exile i need something else that can sac her for it :) but i do agree that i might have a few too many and i have also cutted one - btw i opened a war of the spark box and included some new cards unfortunately not a Ilharg, the Raze-Boar but you can check out the changes i have written about them in the description :)

you are totally right about Insurrection instead of molten primordial, that is something i have to look into in the future, thanks!

Krav, the Unredeemed seems interesting as well, but the live gain is rarely a benefit in marchesa unfortunately and i dont have enough "life total sinks" in yet i feel like, but nice effects still :)

i took a look at your deck yesterday and it looked interesting, will leave some comments when i have the time :D also thanks to you :)