Thank you, WhisperingBlade - you made some really, really good points there and I want you to know that I appreciate the time and thought you put into the comment.
I'm definitely considering Knight of the White Orchid, specifically for the ramp effect. I'm actually thinking of building a deck around just him. I've been aware of him for a years, but never thought of him as a ramp. (How'd I miss that?!) What I really like about Gift of Estates is that it thins the deck out. If I can put 3 lands in my hand on t2/t3, the odds that I draw land after that go down quite significantly, which tends to lead to ideal card draws.
Usually I use Immortal Servitude to bring back all of my 1 drops after blocking deathtouch creatures or some such, but I do also use it after wraths, either my own or opponents. Convoke won't help after a wrath. Return to the Ranks might be cheaper/easier to cast in some cases, but in others, not as good. Maybe I'll try two and see how it goes.
The wraths in there because I have them sitting around, but in all honesty, this deck is so fast, it usually wins before opponents can get scary enough to want a wrath.
The only reason I like Revoke Existence is that it exiles and sometimes that's really clutch, like against modular artifact decks, for instance.
February 17, 2017 4:28 p.m.
No problem, I kind of have a personal goal to nurture White Weenie Humans to be a better-known modern deck, and the more I help, the more unique things I see, and the more I see, the more I can apply concepts to my own deck. Cool little full circle thing going on there. And you definitely have some fair points.
I guess I overlooked the thinning that Gift of Estates can deliver, and I may not value deck thinning as much as I should. I just typically tend to value the body more, but it may be a different experience between my deck and yours.
I definitely see your point on Immortal Servitude. If you are using it for wrath cleanup, that makes much more sense. When I suggested Return to the Ranks, I was thinking that in most cases where you'd use it, you'd use it against midrange, but in midrange it is hardly ever done by wrath effects and they have many ways to make sure that your creatures don't come back such as Scavenging Ooze and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet.
On the topic of wrath effects, they have arguably been the bane of White Weenie since the very beginning of the game. Unless you wanted to run a wrath/recuperate with Immortal Servitude deal against some creature based matchups, I'd advise against them (although it would be a fun deal to try out, although I think that it would only work well enough with Wrath of God for curving reasons).
I've found that many decks choose Disenchant over Revoke Existence because instant speed can deal with more threats. While I definitely like Revoke Existence over Disenchant against cards such as Hangarback Walker or the like, I believe that having the ability to do things at instant speed gives you more options. For example, lets say a combo wants to go off, and needs an enchantment to do it. Well Disenchant can interact with that during their turn. Let's take a more common example though. Your opponent activates an Inkmoth Nexus and swings in for a potential lethal. Because of Disenchant, you are able to remove the threat. At first I was skeptical because the cases where Disenchant helped felt like fringe cases, but it turned out to be more common than expected. I can certainly see where you are going with Revoke Existence, but I'd recommend giving some thought to trying out Disenchant and seeing how you like them and how many times a situation pops up with the exile part would be more relevant than the instant speed part.
February 17, 2017 11:32 p.m.
HerculesMorse says... #4
Sweet deck, +1. How has been Mikaeus been working out for you? I've been tempted to use him in some of my Human decks but have considered him a little slow.
March 6, 2017 11:09 p.m.
Many thanks for te +1HerculesMorse. Mikey is great here, especially if I can drop him for two and then play either Tezzeret's Gambit or Thalia's Lieutenant. The problem I run into is the Legendary Rule. Which is why I dropped him from a full set and added 2x Metallic Mimic.
March 7, 2017 7:42 a.m.
herringtonr says... #6
What about Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit? With as many creatures as you have, it would be triggering a lot and provide counters.
March 8, 2017 9:06 a.m.
SoggyGecko says... #8
I highly highly suggest that you get a playset of Path to Exile in here. It's the best removal spell in Modern, and fits better in your curve than Journey to Nowhere, which costs too much, in my eyes.
Also, how is 18 lands working for you? I feel like having more would help, but this isn't my deck, so I wouldn't know for sure. Especially with a 5 drop, and several mana sinks.
Angelic Overseer seems really out of place here. I think you should run something else in it's place. A 5 mana spell that doesn't help you strategy doesn't seem worthwhile.
I also think you have too many spells. Ordeal of Heliod, Celestial Flare, and Tezzeret's Gambit would be my first thoughts on what to drop. I'm not sure if you are going for a full Soldier theme, or just a +1/+1 counter theme, but more Metallic Mimic, some Honor of the Pure, and maybe something like Soldier of the Pantheon or Hero of Bladehold.
Hope that helps a bit!
April 28, 2017 12:58 p.m.
Thanks for the suggestions, GabeCubed, I really appreciate you taking the time to look this deck over and make so many suggestions.
Path vs Journey/other lesser white removal: Sure, Path is good. But I don't think it's $6 good. Giving opponents an extra land is, IMO, an understated disadvantage. The CMC isn't the issue with Journey, it's that it's an enchantment and therefore subject to removal. All things aside, I've chosen Journey because the CMC is bearable, it doesn't cost that much to buy (This is a budget deck; also, I've had a full set for years now anyway), and it doesn't give opponents any huge advantage. Believe it or not, that free land Path grants can turn out to be really bad.
18 lands is good here. If you look at the curve, you'll see there are very few cards over 2CMC. This deck can work surprisingly well with just 2-3 lands out. I don't usually have as much land out as opponents, but it wins anyway. Running fewer lands here means more slots for 1 drop creatures.
Angelic Overseer fits because all my creatures are Human (not Soldiers). Having a hexproof, indestructible flyer can be a fun nail in the coffin, but I don't expect to draw it often or play it often, or even need it at all. It's pretty much in there for fun because there are no other high CMC spells in the deck.
Yes, the theme here is +1/+1 counters. All the creatures here have a way to get counters on their own. If/when Abzan Falconer hits, the deck usually wins. Even without the Falconer, this deck consistently puts out 4-5 creatures that all exceed 4/4 by t4-t5, and that's usually fast enough to out-big opponents turn after turn.
Ordeal of Heliod would probably be the first card I'd consider dropping. I like it because I can cast it on a creature with 2 +1/+1 counters already on it, add an extra counter and get 10 life all in the same turn. That gives this deck that extra staying power that can mean the difference between winning and losing. It's also good for sideboarding out, which is great. I see a lot of decks with all their removal in the sideboard, but nothing in the mainboard that can easily be taken away. Celestial Flare is great because it gets around hexproof and indestructible, which in my tiny circle, is clutch. It also sees a lot of back and forth in and out of the sideboard. Since almost the entire deck can be played for 2CMC or less, I end up top-decking pretty quickly. Tezzeret's Gambit is absolutely amazing here. Adding a +1/+1 counter to each of my creatures (think about that with Mikeaus, the Lunarch!) and drawing 2 cards is just sick.
Honor of the Pure is okay, but I see it as weaker than things that give permanent counters. For example, Mikeaus, the Lunarch gives each creature I control a +1/+1 counter. Even if Mike is removed, the counters stay. With Honor, if it's removed, all my creatures suffer. Add in that Honor doesn't have a body, and it doesn't look so great. When Mike hits, Champs and Lieutenants get pumped on the spot because of their tribal effects. Honor, being an enchantment, is not as good.
Metallic Mimic gets removed almost every time I play it. I added 2x in because having 2 Mikes in hand sucks. My real issue with the Mimic is that it only works when it gets out early. Late game it doesn't do much. I've considered running Adaptive Automaton, but I don't really like the its CMC. The other creatures I've been considering is Hanweir Militia Captain Flip or Ranger of Eos - both would equate to major pumps for my other creatures, tho Ranger's CMC would require a larger land base.
I've looked through a lot of cards judiciously for this deck. The weakest points are Hada Freeblade and Kazandu Blademaster - I don't want to go full on Allies - there aren't enough that fit the theme - but there aren't better low CMC creatures that generate their own counters. It's not great when A Blademaster hits but then stays stuck at 2/2 while other creatures get larger around it. For that reason, sometimes I make Mimics Allies instead of Humans, which also isn't ideal, but often works out anyway.
April 28, 2017 6:08 p.m.
hackerheck says... #11
Why Cloudshift? Seems detrimental since your guys are mostly small dudes with lots of counters and they'd lose them being flickered.
November 13, 2017 12:28 a.m.
It's mostly in there for fun, as a means of dodging removal. Most the creatures trigger each other, so I can pump other creatures while dodging removal. Consider even bouncing a Thalia's Lieutenant the same turn it entered.
November 14, 2017 10:22 a.m.
CheapnFast says... #15
My brother Swilliam used to play a deck similar to this in standard that had a price tag in the sub $50 range during the Khans/Theros block standard. He ran a few more spells like Artful Maneuver and Phalanx Leader (I think you can see the synergy there), and he also ran Abzan Falconer which made it a fantastic deck. But I'm not suggesting you do something like that. But, what I would recommend from his deck is that I would not be playing Ordeal of Heliod. I get that 10 life is a big deal, but when you're running cards like Tezzeret's Gambit that spread the love with a lot of counters, I would highly recommend Gleam of Authority. Personally, I think it is better than the Ordeal, but ultimately it is up to you, the deckbuilder. Nice deck though, +1 from me
November 27, 2017 11:52 p.m.
CheapnFast says... #16
The deck was White (and not so) Weenie if you want to look at it. He changed it a little bit due to rotation to keep it alive for a little while and it got weaker, but it's still solid. He won a few FNM events with it too
November 27, 2017 11:53 p.m.
Many thanks for the upvotes CheapnFast and SirSh4ggy! Also thanks for your thoughts, CheapnFast. I originally considered Gleam of Authority and I think even bought a full set just in case, so I'll have to dig them up. Honestly, because I do own this deck in paper and play it fairly often, Ordeal of Heliod is usually relegated to the sideboard in favor of additional removal spells. I only mainboard it when it seems I really need to gain some extra life. But I think I'd like to try Gleam again, not so much for the pump, as for the Vigilance and Bolster. I took a look at the deck you linked. Good stuff there. Cheers!
November 28, 2017 5:06 p.m.
marcopollo says... #18
Nice and fun. Cheap too. I am building something similar and will use many of your ideas.
December 11, 2017 11:28 a.m.
Thanks, marcopollo! There definitely ways to make this even cheaper. About $25 is in Metallic Mimic - I was lucky enough to pull two from boosters - but this card could easily be replaced with something cheaper, say, Thraben Inspector, which could also replace a couple Tezzeret's Gambit, which would cut the need for Glacial Fortress, which would also cut the costs even more. Of course, there are lots of tweaks that could be made - too many to list - best of luck with your build whichever way you go!
December 11, 2017 4:48 p.m.
BrandonJamesCAC says... #22
Plus 1 from me.
Gift of Estates is so underplayed and good.
March 14, 2018 10:23 p.m.
BaconDragon1224 says... #25
This deck might want to splash green for a card like Heroic Intervention . Asides from that I think that this deck should run Benalish Marshal and Settle the Wreckage over the Hour of Revelation . My last suggestion would be Thalia, Heretic Cathar Shes a budget option and hoses things like fetch and shock lands.
OOBS says... #1
Hey, I like the looks of the list! You have a good number of the right cards, but if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for you to look at that I believe should be within whatever budget restrictions you may have.
First, I'd look into Knight of the White Orchid over Gift of Estates. Gift of Estates can sometimes be a dead card if you are fighting hyper aggressive decks that don't need many lands, and Knight of the White Orchid should do a much better job, putting a land into play immediately (and you can still play your land per turn on top of of this, effectively ramping you) and triggering your "humans matters" cards such as Champion of the Parish, Thalia's Lieutenant, and Metallic Mimic. I know he doesn't have any "+1/+1 counters matter" synergy, but a first striker can be an excellent body to start buffing up.
I'd also like to suggest that you use Return to the Ranks instead of Immortal Servitude. They both have similar effects, but Return to the Ranks can be easier to cast with convoke, and because your deck is almost entirely comprised of 1 and 2 drops, in theory this should prove to be a better fit.
In the sideboard, I'd consider removing your wrath effects. Without any way to protect your guys from them, they seem like they will be just as deadly to you as they would be to your opponent (although I could see argument for them being decent when you have 4 mass reanimation effects in the 75). White has a lot of great sideboard cards in modern though, and I'd check out some of the cool cards humans have to offer to that list, like Mirran Crusader and Fiendslayer Paladin which dodge a lot of removal in the format. I'm also a fan of Disenchant over Revoke Existence due to it being instant speed.
Good luck with the brew!
February 17, 2017 4:05 p.m.