Why did they ban paradox? I feel like Senseis Diving top would be a better banning because it is not so important in the meta but it still can do some stuff. A train on Iona ban tho, Theres a dude at my store who plays Iona and its super annoying

I feel like Engine was a good ban tbh. It was just an auto include in so many decks because it just auto won you the game for something you were already doing.

Hey all, thanks for the comments on the page. Sorry for taking a little while to get to you. I'll address each of your comments in bullet points:

• abierto - thanks for the compliment! No. Not going to switch to Intruder Alarm . Something about it just rubs me the wrong way, and besides I know that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is roaming about in my meta - that is a card I don't want to unwittingly enable.

• _Delta_ - I won't call Worldly Tutor a replacement, only a temporary stand in. I think the rules committee are wrong, plain and simple. Besides, with their history they have a weird habit of just unbanning ridiculous cards. It's likely they'll just unban Paradox Engine on a whim...just like Painter's Servant or Protean Hulk .

• Fellin22 - Sensei's Divining Top ? It's okay - there are plenty of decks that don't really care about top deck manipulation. Additionally, it's not super disruptive to play. Iona is a definitely a problem though - she's Leovold, Emissary of Trest level annoying. Now that is a proper ban.

• Nephs - I have to disagree with you on that one. Paradox Engine was hardly an "auto-include" or an "auto win" because you have to build your deck and boardstate around Engine just enough to make it truly work on a consistent basis. With multiple mana-rocks, sure you can flood a board state and maybe dump your hand, but what are you going to use to tutor/draw more cards? I guess what i'm trying to say is that in order for Paradox Engine to win you the game, you need to assemble something of a Rube Goldberg Machine to get it working. I will agree to the point that it can help accelerate a player's boardstate - but without the right pieces in play...it only serves as a big target that can only help you so much. Again - I disagree with your logic.

Oh, and I forgot to explain my reasoning behind Worldly Tutor - while again, it's only temporary, Tutor is meant to enable the deck's 3rd "Hidden" commander: The First Sliver . A fun play would be to cast Tutor placing a Sliver of my choice (cmc 4 or less) on top of my library, then I cast First . First 's cascade trigger then places down said previously mentioned Sliver on the board. Yeah, that's about it. Nothin' fancy. Thoughts?

LVL_666 I'm with you I think I got to play paradox once and it got countered even brand new players would understand that paradox engine was a threat that can't stay ground. I don't agree with the banning It sucks for slivers but practically neutered Karn. Well with paradox gone for now I went for the steal your stuff with Unnatural Selection

Hi man. Just a wonder, with The First Sliver what about Congregation at Dawn could tutor up 3 creatures to cascade just an idea. As for Paradox Engine ban, at least we can still use in one on one. I run Intruder Alarm anyway, so can Enlightened Tutor for this and cascade it out. Which seems fair lol. Also was thinking of just chucking Leyline of Anticipation in there as well.

On another note, all the bans hit me lol. Paradox Engine in 2 decks, Iona, Shield of Emeria in kaalia and Bridge from Below in my modern hoogak vine deck. It's been rough lol

I was able to spit my entire sliver fleet out with Paradox Engine exactly once. A memorable, glorious way to win and I too lament the ban. I slotted Intruder Alarm in as a replacement, but your comment gave me pause and I agree with you - it's just too risky and relies too heavily on an established board state. For funsies I've decided to temporarily revert to my win-more sliver noob ways and am putting in Unnatural Selection for now.

Question for you regarding The First Sliver - In your experience have you cascaded into a fizzled removal/counterspell very often or do you find your topdeck manipulation suite to be sufficient in that regard? The reason I ask is because I have a similar (albeit much more budget) build to yours except for the topdeck stuff ( Sensei's Divining Top + Mirri's Guile et al). I'm wondering if I need to/should incorporate a few of those options in order to optimize those sweet, delicious cascades.

I very much agree with Doombeard1984. Congregation at Dawn seems like the perfect storm to me for First Sliver.

Hey all,

Glad to see that there are other players who also lament the rules committee's (poorly thought out - in my opinion) decision to ban Paradox Engine . If you agree, then why not sign the Change.org Petition to formally and respectfully voice your criticism?

• Tecstasy: "I don't agree with the banning It sucks for slivers but practically neutered Karn. Well with paradox gone for now I went for the steal your stuff with Unnatural Selection" - Interesting...but which Karn are you referring to? Because if you're talking about Creator Karn , then I beg to differ. The Rules committee yet again missed another "ubiquitous" combo that in my opinion should fit within their new philosophy: Karn, the Great Creator + Mycosynth Lattice = None of your opponents can play magic anymore. This combo has circulated in multiple decks in my meta. The best part is that this combo really depends on who controls Creator Karn - so if an opponent drops a Lattice they could be unwittingly crippling the whole table and themselves. Again, I don't know which Karn you're speaking of, but at the very least one of them is still allowed to run around unchecked.

• Doombeard1984: "Hi man. Just a wonder, with The First Sliver what about Congregation at Dawn could tutor up 3 creatures to cascade just an idea." - I like the idea of Congregation , unfortunately it has to be cast with First out on the battlefield already, and ideally a 5-drop on deck for casting in order to really take advantage of the 1-2-3 creature cascade drop.

• Forkbeard: " For funsies I've decided to temporarily revert to my win-more sliver noob ways and am putting in Unnatural Selection for now." - I used to have Selection slotted in, but I found it to be useful in only maybe one scenario where Sliver Overlord isn't present, and that's against Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow . "Question for you regarding The First Sliver - In your experience have you cascaded into a fizzled removal/counterspell very often or do you find your topdeck manipulation suite to be sufficient in that regard?" Have I cascaded into a fizzled removal/counterspell? Well...yes. However there's a wonderful thing about Cascade - there's a may clause. That wording is: " You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren't cast on the bottom of your library in a random order." So while I have cascaded into fizzled spells, they haven't had any real negative impact outside of that spell being exiled. I'm satisfied with the amount of topdeck manipulation that's already in the deck. I took a quick look at your build, and I must recommend that you include some Fetchlands. They help when in a pinch if you find that your deck efforts aren't going to yield anything.

Forkbeard - " I took a quick look at your build, and I must recommend that you include some Fetchlands. They help when in a pinch if you find that your deck efforts aren't going to yield anything." what I meant to say was "They help when in a pinch if you find that your TOP deck efforts aren't going to yield anything." If you're going for a budget build, I definitely recommend the Mirage Fetchlands

LVL_666 I run Karn, Silver Golem as my commander Covered in MUD I have other ways to combo off now I'm just going to be dependant on Voltaic Construct without Paradox I have a order of cards coming this week with so I should be fine after reworking I just didn't have Construct for the past year

What would you rather have instead mox diamond and mana crypt, two more lands? or two another mana rocks/manadorks/rampant growth like effects? I find basic lands really useful for my meta, two times they saved me from a ruination

Daevied, apologies for the really late reply - i've been kind of distracted from Slivers as of late. Given the context of this deck here are my suggestions:

• Mox Diamond can be subbed out for the new Arcane Signet .
• Mana Crypt is a tough one, but I can throw out suggestions for any of the Talismans from the Modern Horizons or Onslaught sets (I didn't feel like leaving a link to the onslaught cycle, but they're allied colors)
• More lands? Uh...i'd probably use some basics along with Prismatic Vista . Honestly, not sure what you're asking when you said "two more lands?" hope I answered your question.
• "two another mana rocks/manadorks/rampant growth like effects?" So...what you're asking is what other ramp spells would I recommend? Well those would be anything that may target typed lands (so we can target those duals). So that would leave us: Farseek , Ranger's Path , and/or Pir's Whim . I'm sure there are more spells out there you can use, those were just off the top of my head. Hope those suggestions help!

Again, sorry for the late response.

Hi, thanks for your reply. What i was asking is what would you replace those two artifacts with 0 manacost for (Obviously i have budgets problems with those two xd). So i tough maybe i could put 2 more lands in or ramp spells instead of those two artifacts.

(Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not a native english speaker so i have problems to redact, but i can understand it very well)

Hey Daevied, So finding replacements for cost artifacts is pretty tough, as all the good ones are kind of expensive. So, rather than go with the "very best" why don't we look at some less optimal options: Mox Tantalite is definitely one of the less powerful moxes, but it's still a mox! Additionally, you could try your luck with Astral Cornucopia and/or Everflowing Chalice . Of the bunch I mentioned, I'd go with the Tantalite and the Chalice if you had to stick with mana rocks. You'd probably be better off with ramp though. Kodama's Reach and Cultivate are excellent options in my opinion.

Hope that answers your question! Also, your English is really good!

What are your thoughts on The Great Henge ? The card draw seems really good especially if you have The First Sliver out. However the cost is pretty steep unless you already have one of the sliver legends out already. Seems like something you might want turn 6-7 or so but a dud in your opening hand.

I guarantee you they banned Paradox Engine due to the printing of Urza, Lord High Artificer .

The ban list has never made since. I think they just ban things they have bad run ins with or personally don't like.

Nerset for example protects herself with hexproof, swings in once.... then starts hitting extra combats and turns while the rest of the play group watches someone play solitaire for 30 mins.

I am starting to think the ban list should just not exist.

TypicalTimmy,

Yes, I can see the immediate benefits of using Clone Legion but wouldn't it be more of a "win more" spell? I mean, for me to get the most value out of it i'd likely need to have a very strong board presence with at least Gemhide and Heart Sliver among others. Then there's the whole Legendary issue to consider - obviously the Legendary copies would go bye bye, the biggest loss for this spell however would be that The First Sliver 's effect will not trigger as none of the clones are cast. For a spell like this, the deck would need to have more of an aggro focus for it to work - at least that's my assessment. Do you think i'm missing something with this reasoning?

TypicalTimmy I wish Birthing Boughs said ": Create a 2/2 colorless Shapeshifter creature token with changeling." As it would be an excellent mana-dump between the last or 3rd player's turn and mine in case I didn't need to use any interaction. It's an interesting card for sure, but I can't help but feel apprehensive toward it. For token generation I already have a better option in the form of Brood Sliver - as it directly benefits from Bonescythe Sliver . There any cards in the deck you think Birthing Boughs could synergize with?

Eww, I just said the word "Synergize"...what am I some sort of corporate drone?"

TypicalTimmy, honestly I didn't even think about how busted ":Create a 2/2 colorless Shapeshifter creature token with changeling." would be with Mana Echoes ! UGH Now I really really wish it said that! That card would've been an auto-include for sure. Dangit Wizards, stop learning from your mistakes! LOL

It seems that I've already upvoted your deck. I have really nothing to add other than that this deck is a work of art!

Enral, it's all good lol. Well if you ever feel so inclined, you could always throw an upvote to my loveletter to phyrexia: The Song of Phyresis

I don't know what to do without paradox. I wonder if I should try building a different sliver deck instead. I just miss paradox :(

k_drake I too miss my sweet sweet engine. But slivers are more than that - always have. I simply adjusted my strategy slightly by going with Worldly Tutor , which directly supports The First Sliver . Kind of a simple choice if you ask me.

I cant afford any of this but i really love the fact its still a sliver toolbox would you recommend using proxies bc i cant even afford a start off of the deck even budget wise.