abierto: being competitive commander doesn't change the fact that Skyshroud Claim is still better than Carpet of Flowers for exactly the reasons i already mentioned.

abierto, TonyStark9001 your discorse convinced me that there are better options out there than Skyshroud Claim. While yes, it is a great ramp card, within the realm of competetiveness one must prioritize efficient, lower cost spells. Spoils of Victory is a placeholder for when Three Visits sees a reprint. That card is definitely not on the reserved list and will see a reprint at some point. No use in spending $150 on a common that could easily slip in with almost any upcoming supplementary set.

mortlock: thats...cool i guess? we were simply discussing Skyshroud Claim vs Carpet of Flowers. nothing more.

Mortlocke That might be something more efficient. I'll decktest that too! But I'm still thinking about Carpet of Flowers as a better ramp somehow: you can drop it at turn one, at at least one player on your pod will play blue.. Competitive decks without blue are a minority: I guess one of them will fetch a dual or a shockland with "island" printed on it. And even if there's 1 island otb, it will be of a color of your choice, on each of your turns. IDK if I still want to spend 3 mana for a single land card: I can then play a mana rock at 3 cmc like Coalition Relic or a more cheap Darksteel Ingot, which is ind. and can save us from our own Harmonic Sliver.

How do you gents feel about Rewind taking one of the 'counterspell' slots? My thought is that it can enable mana to still be used on a tutor from Sliver Overlord, or some other sliver shenanigans like Quick Sliver or some other cheeky interaction

TonyStark9001, I can't mention alternative options between the two being discussed? Well excuse me. -_- Honestly, I'm not very convinced that Carpet of Flowers is the best option within the context of this deck. I think abierto is blinded by the concept of Flowers being considered competitive - not thinking that it may misfire depending on what i'm facing. In my case, the usual suspects this deck faces are Najeela, Blade-Blossom and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician stax. Both run alot of non-typed non-basic lands. Thus making the odds relatively moderate to low that an opponent will place down an island for Flowers to trigger off of. Stritctly speaking, I think this Enchantment is all about High risk - high reward.

Personally, I just don't like the idea of hoping that an opponent will ignore the very obvious ramp on my side of the board and is willing to award me an advantage on my next main phase. Sure, that would change how my opponent plays their deck, but doesn't necessarily hinder their boardstate. Besides, it doesn't even interact with my absurdly expensive manabase. What's the point of Revised Duals if you can't fetch them at every opportunity? For now, Skyshroud Claim is in as a place holder in my physical deck, but when Wizards finally reprints Three Visits - i'll run it. Having access to a Revised dual sooner is always better.

p.s. - I will revisit Flowers the moment Urza, Lord High Artificer rears his ugly head in my meta.

How do you gents feel about Rewind taking one of the 'counterspell' slots?

bigrigroy - I absolutely have to weigh in on this. No. Not worth it in a 5c competetive Sliver deck. You need to go as low to the ground as possible when running competetive countermagic - holding up mana for a spell that may or may not be cast is always the least desirable outcome. And before you think "Well what do you consider competetive?" here's my list (in no particular order):

• Force of Will
• Delay
• Dovin's Veto
• Swan Song
• Pact of Negation
• Flusterstorm
• Spell Pierce
• Deflecting Swat
• Negate
• Mana Drain
• Mental Misstep
• Fierce Guardianship
• Counterspell (sort of an honorable mention here. Yes, there are better spells - but this is the original gangsta. It's a pet card for me.)

Mind you this list is pretty subjective, and should be adjusted to one's tastes and meta - but this is what I'd consider competetitive. The absolute best counter magic is free, as you can bait out the big spells.

Mortlocke I'm not a big fan of spells with 2 mana of the same color as cost in a 5 color deck. But yeah, it might be worth some decktests. It's true that 3 generics for a Sliver looks more viable, for me, then 1BB but... You can still test it and let us know ;)

About Krosan Grip: is it there because you are into a Food Chain meta? Since Nature's Claim it's just 1 green mana for the purpose of destroying something.

abierto, Grim Tutor seems like an upgrade over Homing Sliver. It's nice to have a tutor on a body, but for as long as i've owned this deck, i've never actually used Homing Sliver's body. That sounds alot weirder than it did in my head. But yeah, I've never been interested in Homing Sliver's body - only it's ability. Grim Tutor on the other hand can get me any card in my deck for an adjustment in the CMC (from to ). I think the benefit outweighs the cost - and I will happily report in on my findings after thorough experimentation!

Oh, and in regards to Krosan Grip - you're correct. On occassion I do face a General Tazri Food Chain deck - (the commander could have changed now, as COVID has given people tons of time to brew). But i'll keep Nature's Claim in the back of mind as my meta will likely be shifting considerably in the near future.

Yoo! just wanted to throw the new counterspell Miscast into the discussion in case you havn't noticed it until now.

Question: why no Heartstone or Zirda, the Dawnwaker?

"Question: why no Heartstone or Zirda, the Dawnwaker?"

Zhugo12, thanks for asking that - I've already got an answer pre-baked in my head regarding Heartstone, and that's an easy one to answer - because if you read the card closely, it awards the cost reduction of abilities to all creatures on the board. Let me be clear - in cEDH you do not help your opponents under any circumstances - doing so is akin to either forfeiting or playing kingmaker. Before you even think "Oh, but you can use it with..." No. I'm not going to have a card in this deck that is essentially dead until I get Sliver Queen and Basal Sliver on the board.

As for Zirda...the short answer is that I would essentially have to cripple my deck in order to fit Zirda in as a companion. There's a sizable number of permanents in the deck that do not have activated abilities, namely Mana Echoes, Training Grounds, Mirri's Guile, Mystic Remora, Sentinel Sliver, Sliver Overlord (the list goes on, you get the idea) would have to be removed or substituted for just one card that provides a nominal boon at best. What's amusing is that even the other card that you mentioned Heartstone can't even be included alongside Zirda. Heartstone is a static ability (it's always on), not an activated one (which requires some sort of payment to activate - , pay , etc)

Additionally, Zirda is a filthy non-sliver. Yeah. I said it. I don't like non-slivers in my Sliver Tribal deck. I can't even tutor for it using the Commander's first ability. I'd have to waste a tutor to fetching it as opposed to getting a Mana Dork or an actual Wincon. Zirda doesn't contribute in anyway to the cohesive strategy that Slivers bring - not awarding any special abilities tha

Zhugo12, just realized I cut off the last bit of my conclusion. In summary - Zirda just doesn't do nearly enough for me to even consider testing in this deck.

So I get not wanting to run Heartstone for fear of opponents using it to greater effect than you, but I didn't mean running Zirda, the Dawnwaker as companion (duh that would be stupid) you can run it in the 99 to great effect and it is a sliver! You run Amoeboid Changeling, so everyone is a sliver :D

In all seriousness, running Zirda, the Dawnwaker in the 99 as redundancy to Training Grounds does make some sense, even if it is a filthy non-sliver. It's just another great combo-enabler.

Figured you meant running Zirda as one of the 99, Zhugo12. But you weren't terribly specific so I had to cover all of my thoughts in two separate tangents. Sure, i'll agree that Amoeboid Changeling can turn ol' Zirda into a Sliver, but in doing so i'd be wasting a chance to make an opponent's creature a sliver that can be liberated by the Commander's 2nd ability. Zirda is a decent card, but it comes off as a bit jank within the context of this deck, at least. Honestly, I think it belongs in a casual kitchen table sliver deck.

Hi there I have a question. Do you think Herald's Horn and Heroic Intervention Can fit in this deck? Herald's Horn seems a card draw to me and Heroic Intervention can help pretect my side of the board while a counterspell on a wrath cancel the effect on my opponents also.

Hi there luca11rise, I appreciate the inquiry. I'll address each card individually:

• Herald's Horn: In this deck? No. It contributes exclusively to a more aggro playstyle which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The only issue is that late game (past turn 5) this is a dead card. Within cEDH you are trying to win as fast as possible. Getting more creatures out is good and all, but what you need are combo pieces that can further your boardstate - and secure you victory. Herald's Horn is a good card, just not necessarily a competitive one.

• Heroic Intervention: Absolutely can fit in the deck. I personally haven't found a place for it - but it's a darn good card that is great at thwarting the aforementioned wrath and removal effects. It's CMC is low to the ground, and is relevant at any point in the game.

Imho Herald's Horn is a good card draw and cost reducer. Will allow us to play more stuff since 16 out of 25 slivers in our deck require colorless mana to be cast (or 15 out of 24, since I'm still playing Homing).

For Heroic Intervention, I prefer a Teferi's Protection instead, but I guess it's a great card too!

abierto, Herald's Horn is indeed a good card, i'm not arguing that. But in the context of this deck I just don't see it performing very well. I won't tutor for it, and if I draw it after turn 3 i'd be hesitant to play it over a sliver, mana rock, or combo piece. Maybe if I had a mana rock like Sol Ring on the board already, sure i'd play it then a cost reduced sliver right after. But that is probably the only scenario i'd see it being useful. Again, i've got to emphasize that this is a deck meant for a competitive meta - each card has to have a significant impact on my board no matter what turn it's cast. Herald's Horn in my eyes simply lacks this property.

I didn't realize I could consider other cards in regards to Heroic Intervention. You framed the question as something more binary - sure, if I wanted to lean more into protection i'd definitely include Teferi's Protection, no doubt. But I could still see Heroic Intervention having a slot. I'm not going to try and include it now, as i'm actually quite happy with where the deck is at the moment. Thanks for the comments.

Have you ever concidered running Nature's Claim over Krosan Grip? I'm debating about doin this swap in my list atm.

Also, what about Dockside Extortionist?? This is a big mana guy in the current meta. Can break stax and can give you access ti your Commander like turn 2.

All,

Thanks for the comments. I'll address them by individual.

Slayroth, as a matter of fact yes I have considered the highly versatile Nature's Claim over Krosan Grip. I mainly ran Grip because my friends' Najeela deck ran free countermagic out the wazoo. But, my meta has shifted considerably as i've moved overseas. Don't fret, there's a magic community here - haven't met them yet due to well...COVID...but i'm sure i'll make some adjustments after playing with them. For now, I need to get a copy of Nature's Claim for my "side board" trade binder.

abierto, I absolutely adore Dockside Extortionist. It's an amazing card - but unfortunately due to my quirks as a deck builder I simply cannot include it - it's a filthy non-sliver. Sure, I could look at it as merely an animated mana rock, but the thought will simply sting in the back of my mind. Honestly, i'm considering Carpet of Flowers - but it depends on my meta, and how many players I know make use of islands.

Thanks for the comments all. I hope you're keeping safe during these weird times. I know i'm definitely holed up in my Hive Cocoon.

Mortlocke consider this: you play Amoeboid Changeling that can transform Dockside Extortionist into a Sliver! Isn't this enough? Haha!

I have a very specific question that I am thinking about for quite a while now. I startet to play magic and commander 3 years ago and your List was a inspiration for my own list and first deck ever since, thanks for that :D. The thing is I don't have the original dual lands for obvious reasons and I will never get them.

So I upgraded my mana base bit by bit over these 3 years. The reprints of the shocklands where a blessing for me back then, that was a really huge buff to the manabase when I got all 10 of them at the same time. At the moment 1 run all 10 shocks, 10 5-color lands, all 5 bondlands, 5 Basic (1 of ervy type) and the rest ist a mix of pain- and filterlands to lean more towards blue and green. So now there is the possible reprint of the fetchlands on the horizon and I'm thinking about the next upgrade here...but I am a little bit hesitant here because of one simple problem... the selfdamg.

Do you think it is a good idea to run all 10 fetches in a 5 color deck without the original duals?

I am a little bit afraid that the selfdamg would be to high considering I can only target shocklands and 5 basics. The competitivelevel of my playgroup is like around a 7, there are still quite a number of creature and battlephase heavy decks and also a Nekusar and a Torbran. But then again I already had countless of situations where I would have been happy to have a shuffle effect on command...looking at you senseis divining top ^^'

Slayroth: Fetchlands are almost always worth it. While you lose a little bit of life over the course of a game from them, you wouldn't be losing more life from the shocks than you already would be by playing them. Not to mention you can crack a fetch at EoT to get a tapped shockland if you don't need the mana immediately. But the ability to mana fix so efficiently allows your deck to be more consistent, which overall translates into being faster. So if you can get the win, who cares if you've damaged yourself. It's the same reason that Mana Crypt sees so much play. The life loss is worth the early game mana.