Well they will have a lot of manipulation of counters probably. so +1/+1 counters or spore counters, it could be moved around in different ways. If needed, we could just have the spore counters be +1/+1 counters instead and leave it to higher costed creatures. Like +1/+1 counter manipulation could be like Fertilid, who sounds like a distant cousin of Thallids. But then Growth would become just a keyword of Lumberknot

The issue with Ungrave is that it is extremely good when you put it with Entomb. Ungrave creatures that get big means that your graveyard will always be a resource. I wouldn't complain if we did use it as the mechanic, but we would have a lot of balance issues trying to make the cards fair for draft. Otherwise every Thannalid deck will try to turn into "attrition them out, then reanimate all my creatures"

Ungrave being MADE for Entomb is actually what makes it a bit iffy to put in. Like think Bolster and Outlast. Made to synergize with each other, but not be linear enough that you'd always play them together....what if Entomb could be used to make spore counters? Not based off the converted mana cost though. Like maybe you exile the card chosen and you put spore counters equal to the number of colors it had?

I'm actually considering using Ungrave and Growth together, but for growth, put +1/+1 counters on it. But I understand that just straight up +1/+1 counters would be a bit overpowered, so I thought of this.

Growth — Whenever a nontoken creature dies, put a spore counter on CARDNAME. Then, if there are two or more spore counters on CARDNAME, remove 2 of them, and put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME. — [Effect]

Figure out some way to decrease the wordiness of that and you are golden.

Maybe Growth would give spore counters and you will commonly see the removal of spore counters give +1/+1 counters instead of Saprolings like the Thallids have done? Like maybe a one mana Thannallid would maybe require four counters to give it +1/+1, but a five mana Thanallid might only need two.

How about we use Morbid as a mechanic? It requires creatures to die and only checks if they have died rather than how many have died. Also it could work well if it was used like "at the beginning of each end step, if a creature died this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature" or something.

Alternatively, how about we change Ungrave slightly. How about Ungrave , remove all +1/+1 counters from this creature: Return a creature card with a converted mana cost less than the number of +1/+1 counters removed from your graveyard to the battlefield." This way we get to set the cost of Ungrave and it gives the player a decision - one big creature or two smaller creatures.

Maybe Growth could have its own unique counters like a growth counter and it's labeled as Growth 5 or something, where it states:

Growth 5 (Whenever a creature dies you may put a growth counter on this creature. During your upkeep you may remove five growth counters from this creature and put a +1/+1 counter on it.)

Of course that number is kind of higher, but for a cheaper creature. I feel like Morbid already had a good amount of Golgari representation too, though...

I like that final suggestion, however we would have to change Growth to say, put a +1/+1 counter on any target creature you control, otherwise you wouldn't be able to use ungrave unless it was on something with growth. Note that the original ungrave allowed me to remove counters from any creature I controlled.

Oh yeah that would make sense. Maybe make it any time a non-token creature dies and you put the +1/+1 counter on any other creature you control, to kinda balance it out a bit.

Woah.... I didn't know this was made....

Anyways. Entomb is cool! I like it!

Ungrave is bad. You need to make a deck, where you have a lot of counters. It just relies too heavily on counters. It feels like a win-more mechanic.

Germinate. I like the mechanic. It just doesn't feel.... Like a mechanic. It feels like a one card ability....

I think Growth is way too good! You return a 1 CMC from your graveyard. It dies, you return a better creature.... Idk, it seems really strong...

Yeah, we are working on all the tribes. Just that the Lutrin and Steelkin are the only ones getting a lot of attention.

As for our mechanics, I will say that Entomb is the only one I'm currently 100% satisfied with. Maybe we should design a second mechanic that works specifically to work with Entomb.

Something like "Gorge X (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may exile X creature cards from your graveyard." and then "If the Gorge cost was paid, do something". Gorge would typically be one or two. This way you get some cool effects, and it synergizes with Entomb dumping creatures. Also this way you won't always want to grab the biggest thing if there was a creature you wanted to exile instead.

Ungrave was made specifically with entomb in mind lemmingllama.

Very true. I'm still leery about using Ungrave, mainly because it's such a powerful mechanic. I feel that it would be better as a single card rather than as a full mechanic, except wording it like Retribution of the Ancients

How about changing Ungrave to something closer to Dredge (read everything before raging about power levels) where you can return it from your graveyard to your hand. More like Ungrave X (Remove X +1/+1 counters from among creatures you control: Return this card to your hand. Activate this ability only when this creature is in your graveyard and only at sorcery speed.)

NorthernRaven Well with the small creature being reanimated and purposely killed that'd require a sac combo outlet to be made up, which usually makes other cards like Grave Pact become a bit broken. So reanimation like that is a win condition, rather than a balance problem. Primarily depends on what cards we print alongside it.

I don't know bout you guys, but I really like KalvinHobbez's Threaten mechanic. Don't know about that name though...

Yeah I actually found the Threaten mechanic to be kind of neat. Sacrifice aggro for control, giving Golgari pseudo midrange. The name was made up on the spot anyways. Something better could be Prepare or something.

I really like that idea lemmingllama. It synergizes with entomb nicely but doesn't provide such over-reaching effects to be applied in any situation.

The reason why some of us didn't like threaten was because it wasn't really a golgari themed effect. It IS a nice mechanic, but doesn't fit lore wise (ignoring the name). It would be better off in something that deals more in -1/-1 counters like morningtide and shadowmore were like.

Well Golgari has actually done -1/-1 counters quite often before. It's primarily a black thing and green picks it up at certain points of sets.

While that is true, it just doesn't fit with the lore of this set all too well. The Thannalids being spores/fungus either reanimate in some way or grow. Not become weaker or do things other than reanimate.

You could make it say this:

ABILITYNAME — When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may put 3 +1/+1 counters on it. If you don't, destroy target nonblack creature.

Well if the mechanic is nice, then lore could be moved around in order to incorporate it. Like maybe in flavor its them modifying the internal structure of the body they are in, adapting to situations?

Let's look at it from a playability stand point. No one wants to choose an effect if it requires weakening the creature down. People would rather choose between two beneficial effects. Take these two cards for example:

• CARDNAME —
• Creature — Fungus Shaman
• ABILITYNAME 3 — When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may put 3 +1/+1 counters on it. If you don't, destroy target nonblack creature.
• 2/2

OR

• CARDNAME —
• Creature — Fungus Shaman
• ABILITYNAME 3 — When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may put 3 -1/-1 counters on it. If you don't, destroy target nonblack creature.
• 5/5

Which would appeal to the average player? The card that makes the killing a creature seem like a downside? Or the card in which it seems like killing a creature is the normal effect and that you can choose not to kill a creature for an upside?

You also have to examine the counters from a design standpoint. There are VERY few -1/-1 counter matters effects in mtg. Wither, Infect and Persist are the only ones. Ask yourself this, why is this so? And now let me provide you an answer: Designing cards around -1/-1 counters is a lot harder to do than with +1/+1 counters. +1/+1 counters are simple, easy, and don't come with the potential drawback of the creature dying. You can have effects that are incorporated to give +1/+1 counters more than you can have effects that give -1/-1 counters, and conversely, have effects that remove +1/+1 counters more often than you can have effects that remove -1/-1 counters.

I really like entomb.

Here's one of my personal favorite mechanics. The original name was Adapt, but something more apt for this setting could be Enliven, Invigorate, or Vitalize.

(Whenever ~ attacks, if it doesn't have a +1/+1 counter on it, put a +1/+1 counter on it.)

This would usually then be paired with a second ability such as "As long as ~ has a +1/+1 counter on it...", "Whenever a +1/+1 counter is placed on ~...", and/or "Remove a +1/+1 counter from: ."

Examples:

Sporespread Shaman

Creature- Fungus Shaman (common)

Enliven

Whenever a +1/+1 counter is placed on ~, put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield.

1/1

Scavenging Spores

Creature- Fungus (rare)

Enliven

, remove a +1/+1 counter from ~: Return target creature card from your graveyard to your hand.

2/2

I'll just refer to my latest Ungrave attempt as Replenish for now, just to differentiate them.

I really like both Replenish and Adapt. Even if we don't do adapt, I would still want to put the wording on a card or two in the set.

Well with the way you give them +1/+1 counters I feel like it just became a modified version of Tribute. But I guess we can try something like that instead...thought if we make this tribe really +1/+1 counter oriented it'd oddly become like the Simic Combine, wouldnt it?..