sansretour I am pleased for your approval. But I must decline your suggestion: I am no more than a Modern specialist, and as such I am not the right person to give hints about other formats - especially a deep one like Legacy, which I am not very acquainted with. Thanks, though.

Looks at wallet, cries

Snapcaster mage, damnation

mrlucky131313 can you elaborate? I'm sure those are not suggestions..

To be honest, seeing the same cards in every deck gets a bit boring. Snapcaster mage is in high demand for lots of decks, so the better option would be finding a way to either steal them or counter them. OR just mill them faster than they can get stuff! Mindcrank might be a good option, because apparently every wealthy SOAB has the pain, shock and fetch lands. Even in mono-decks where they're really not necessary...

cheeftnx97 I've talked very much about Snapcaster Mage. And there's no way Mindcrank is better than any other mill option.

why don you play Snapcaster

Yarataj you can look up my reasons in Snapcaster Mage's dedicated entry. I talked a lot about it, and about issues with similar cards as well in many other parts of my primer. It is very strange you missed it all.

Very thorough guide! Thank you for putting this together.

NosferatuRed Thank you! :D

Great summary. Thinking of brewing a competitor mill deck as well. Youve obviously thought about this more than me, but What are your thoughts on Snapcaster Mage? Im thinking of running a deck similar to yours just with 4 Snap and a few thought scours. Basically shaving some of the snap targets ( 1 push, 1 visions, 2 darkness and 2 Mind Funeral as well as shaving a land). I also think 1 murderous cut is basically free. I like your streamlined deck, but a bunch of 4-ofs arent always correct.

Skeltond thanks for for your approval. I've already thoroughly covered all the topics you brought out. I hope they are not too hard to find in my primer.

Ignore what I said about murderous cut. It definitely is not free, since it doesnt work until turn 3 usually, which is when fatal push is at its best.

Where in the primer do you actually discuss the viability of Mind Funeral? I looked around but could not find it.

Kalladdin the cards not receiving a comment in the section named "Exploring the Modern card pool" are treated in the section "Decklist", as explained right before the first list of cards.

I'm sorry for having to resort to difficult criteria in arranging the matter, but the cards are many and the points really complicated and intertwined.

Hey Peisistratos,

Great guide! I read most of it, and I like the direction of it, you're very thorough, and I appreciate you taking the time to break down why things were considered and why things weren't. So, thanks.

I'm curious about a few cards/combos I didn't see in here, and hoping to get your thoughts on them. Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank I know we're not causing them to take any damage from any source(per se), but I think it relevant that the combo can start on their upkeep before they untap, provided you have the mana up. This will mill them, obviously, and it gets through the Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Progenitus due to them taking fatal life dmg, even if you have it mill them infinite times while they keep moving the stacks through, on those creatures. I think the 6 to 8 cards it'd cost to make it an alternate sideboard plan are a viable option, and it keeps the "shell" without sacrificing the other slots for other relevant cards. I think it combos well with the Mesmeric Orb you mention also. Duskmantle Guildmage is also a standalone card, in a deck like this, with the milling of 10-13 cards via Glimpse the Unthinkable and Archive Trap.

I would also like your thoughts on Mind Grind it might be kicking a dead horse, though tbh. The mana sink for it is huge, but an easy boost would be a mana producing combo also... Grand Architect + Pili-Pala This is a weak and janky combo, but I feel like the sideboard of games 2 and 3 are the biggest weaknesses of this deck. So, imo, the best way to win it is to keep milling them, but to add an alternate win-con, Gutshot and copy spells, for example.

There's more I could say for higher costs of mana, but you did say that anything 5+ was out, and I think it's a super valid point.

Thanks again,

Thyrd

Thyrd thanks for all your kind words! I am very happy to help!

Here we go with your topics.

Duskmantle Guildmage could be a standalone card worth to be in the maindeck (perhaps to free up sideboard slots), if it wasn't too much expensive and frail when it isn't needed to make up for the times when it is: when it would be useful, against anything apart from an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or a Leyline of Sanctity deck you would win with anything else earlier and with much less mana. As for Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank being a mere sideboard plan, there is hardly an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or a Leyline of Sanctity deck that couldn't deal with such a brittle combo (Duskmantle Guildmage is a little creature at the very least!); and even if it weren't the case, finding 1 out of 4 graveyard hate or Set Adrift is much more likely than getting 1 out of 4 Duskmantle Guildmage AND 1 out of 4 Mindcrank (plus 1 out of 4 Mesmeric Orb against Leyline of Sanctity) every single game (and it is the only relevant factor since it's unlikely that the games where your graveyard hate or Set Adrift are not enough to win exceeded the times when you couldn't get the combo to begin with).

The problem of the deck as a whole is being very clunky. Despite that, at least you win almost every game where you manage to resolve all of your spells: we hardly need more mana sinks. It is already unrealistic to cast Archive Trap for 5 mana; Mind Grind is too much inefficient even at 5 mana! At that price we would play Jace, Memory Adept or Startled Awake  ^Flip for 1 mana less. Much like Snapcaster Mage, the flexibility of Mind Grind means nothing if none of its mode ends up being helpful enough.

The Grand Architect + Pili-Pala has got the same drawbacks of the Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank, with the addition that you also need some cards you could use all that mana with.

I added an entry for Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank in the primer. Thanks again for bringing that up!

Very much like your primer, I have been working on a similar build and almost finished since the glimpse price drop. This deck wants to be fast and I'm wondering how many cards does mesmeric orb hit on average by turn 4-5 I didn't see where you had anything on mind sculpt, also what about thoughtseize/inquisition to buy time?

speedreecer thanks!

Mind Sculpt is worse than Breaking / Entering, which luckily we can afford not to play since is overall such a bad card even for a milling one..

I covered discards in the section about what to do on turn 1.

How many cards Mesmeric Orb hits on average begins to acquire relevance only when that average refers to a particular matchup. Anyway, if you play it on turn 2, you can safely assume it will have milled about ten cards by turn 5 included.

What about fraying sanity and traumatize combo?

speedreecer there is a paragraph about it where I talk about the maindeck strategies I left out.

I see.. thanks again, great read!

Really nice guide man!I love playing mill and have just put together a similar deck, and tomorrow I will play it in my FNM group.

I was just wondering what your thought on a mill strategic that is super defensive by utilizing cards like Phenax, God of Deception together with BIG walls like Wall of Frost.

Could that be a thing that works?

That would make more of a control or defensive mill list. I think this list is more of an 'aggro'. I guess if you toss in 4x Leyline of the Void and maybe a couple Leyline of Sanctity, you could also add in an Ensnaring Bridge.

Meganollan such strategy won't buy you enough time even versus aggro. And against any other strategy it is a super slow and unreliable combo revolving on resolving one specific expensive card out of four. I strongly advise against it.