Yeah, zwells3, if you can make infinite mana/draw, you can loop a Paradox Engine, Voltaic Key and Sensei's Divining Top with a Noxious Revival on an Isochron Scepter, getting an effective Wheel of Sun and Moon effect. Use Windfall from this state to deck your opponents by constantly recasting it over and over, while looping you graveyard into your deck.

Hello AlwaysSleepy and Shaper... a question, why to use Regrowth in the place of something like Reclaim which being an instant makes for a better EOT combo setup play? I've always felt the extra 1cmc cost, and sorcery speed on Regrowth made it hard to include in the middle of a win turn.

Reclaim could also be imprinted on IsoCopy+IsoRev or IsoReclaim+Paradox Engine for looping purposes.

Aside from the obvious fact that Reclaim results in card disadvantage, is there any reason why regrowth would be chosen on that slot?

VelvetVendetta but they run Noxious Revival already, which is a better Reclaim, and Regrowth puts it to hand if you need the card that turn.

Yes but running both Noxious and Reclaim is a way to ensure you never lose your looping mechanism.

Although that's a way bigger deal for me, cuz I can't afford a timetwister (which is the perfect alternative for looping)

I mean, no, it is just another dead card, why would you lose the Noxious Revival?

VelvetVendetta

Hey man, basically, SynergyBuild is spot on. We play one which is free and one which puts it right into to your hand, so it covers the bases. Reclaim isn't specifically a bad card, which is important to note. It's more, it's kinda is a middling card between the two we run, so it's ideal to play the better cards in each. And since you really just need 1 or 2 of the effects, loading up on 3 is a bit much.

There are a lot of cards which could be playable, but aren't here since we're really working to keep this list as the best of the best, which is what gives PST its power. Thus, we play the free one, and the one which puts it right into hand. Reclaim would want a draw effect for the turn, which is doable, but asking for another layer (if we are comparing to Regrowth).

If you can't get a Timetwister, it's okay! You can use Memory's Journey to pretty much the same effect. The loop is in the write-up.

Honestly, I don't even own a Timetwister. Card's crazy $$$ lol.

Yeah, they cost around 875 right now, quite the expensive investment.

Well, in my list, I save the Journey slot exactly by using Reclaim INSTEAD of regrowth, optimizing the list by mixing both cards on the same slot.

I do agree that on a vacuum Regrowth is a better card, but I wouldn't feel safe having just Noxious as the only card that enables the loopings, I mean, we want to actually cast noxious, so it goes to the grave, people also run windfall effects, so yeah it goes to the grave even if we never use it.

And people do exile graves... I don't see why it would be so difficult to imagine a scenario where Noxious is lost.

But yeah your list has timetwister so you don't have "just noxious" you would need to lose 2 cards to exile to lose your ability to loop your kill spells.

By the way Sleepy, great primer you guys have here, just wanted to say that =D.

VelvetVendetta

I see your point, but Memory's Journey is a Twister loop card, and Reclaim would be Nox no. 2 for looping under Copy. I don't generally put Journey under Copy but you can if you want to, same effect. But there are plenty of other things to loop under it, so we keep the Twister loop line. Grave exile is totally a thing, but we insulate against it by playing other cards which themselves can be imprinted instead of Nox. Like Trophy or Winds of Rebuke or Swan Song.

I think now that Trophy is around, we get another pretty sick card to imprint. Just destroy everyone's permanents!

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you've been liking it.

Hey Shaper and Sleepy!

I had a couple questions about the deck. I have been having trouble finding a Morphic pool, would running an underground river in place suffice?

Also, I was kicking around the idea of including Lab Man as an alternate win con in the deck. What would you consider switching out for Lab Man if you were going to run it

Yeah, this deck isn't a Worldgorger Dragon combo that needs to tap specific lands infinite times, so Underground River works. IDK about Lab Man.

cpantaleoz Underground River is a fine replacement.

We talk about LabMan in the primer under the Alternate Win Conditions section.

Just out of curiosity, what is the reason for snow basics?

cpantaleoz Snow-basics do strictly more than basics. It's unlikely to matter whether you play snow or regular.

Hi, just wondering is Muddle the Mixture main use is to get a piece to Dramatic Scepter and I wanted to get your thoughts on Praetor's Grasp thanks again!

Kross33

Yup! And it's a counterspell if you don't want it, win/win!

Grasp is sometimes a playable outlet (Froggers!) but mostly not a playable card. It can be looped to a victory in this deck, but outside of that its uses are far less and/or weaker than the outlets we currently play.

We pick outlets mainly based on how good the cards are if they aren't being looped to win, since then it doesn't really matter what you loop. In that scenario, something like Assassin's Trophy is a lot nicer to grip in hand outside of a combo turn than Grasp.

Hello AlwaysSleepy & ShaperSavant,

I've been playing Lilbrudder's PST version with Thrasios and Vial Smasher and I have to say that I have been enjoying it for the past 3 months now. I used to think that Thrasios Tymna is an automatic Flash Hulk build so I decided to get Vial Smasher and go sans white to play cards like Pyro, REB, Gamble, Wheel of Fortune, Manamorphose and Fire Covenant. I never liked the Flash Hulk piles and just like what you said in the previous comments, it has more moving parts and less redundancies. I like the idea that you play less or even no dead cards.

So after seeing your list, I believe that this is perfect for me. I could run Tymna now, no Flash Hulk lines, stick with PST and more ramp. I'm starting to replace my Lilbrudder list on paper to my own version of your deck list.

Some help questions:

1. Plunge into Darkness: I haven't really played this before and I just want to ask, what do you usually try to find using this card? Can you consider Intuition to be a less risky card given that you can only get one (1) card from Plunge too and you don't exile the two other cards from Intuition? You can grab Noxious, Regrowth and Paradox/Isochron/Dramatic.

2. Your thoughts on Into the Roil replacing a less powerful countermagic? Being sans red means we dont get access to By Force, Rolling Earthquake, Vandalblast and other removals. I mean, we can't counter everything right? Do you think an additional bounce effect is needed? It also serves as another draw spell when trying to goldfish.

3. Your thoughts on Unsubstantiate? Again another bounce card specifically for creatures and spells. This can be good with creature heavy decks and it can also retaliate against Abrupt Decays or any uncounterable spells like when Boseiju or Cavern is used.

Lastly, I super like it that you guys religiously respond to comments in this list. Super thanks!

I am also a huge fan of Rhystic Study. Often times I get a lot of drawn cards from it. Any suggestions on a main card I can replace this with?

rgwenceslao

counterspell to protect your play. Sometimes you're looking for an answer to a stax piece. Sometimes you're digging wildly to find a combo piece to win before you die. It all depends.

Roil: Feel free to play it if you feel it's good in your meta over a counterspell.

Unsubstantiate: In my estimation, it's too easy to simply recast the spell. If you think it does exactly what you need, feel free to slot it in.

Rhystic: the most cuttable cards are probably Cabal Ritual, Spell Pierce, Muddle, Winds.

Sweet list! I'm building Thrasios / Tymna Aluren combo right now.

Interesting that you include Notion Thief. I have Thalia, Heretic Cathar and Aven Mindcensor as hatebears; should I run Notion Thief as well?

How effective is Toxic Deluge? I struggle to imagine wanting it when mana dorks are so valuable. In my deck especially I'm on a bit of a budget so I'm not playing all the expensive mana rocks. I think losing my board state would set me back really far.

ToolmasterOfBrainerd

Re: Notion Thief, it's up to you. Thief is quite strong, and if you want to play a different bear, he works well. Up to you but I think he's strong enough to include.

Re: Toxic Deluge, when you have to cast it, you're likely far enough behind that it's not going to be a big deal. Having that last out is important, but it does hurt the dorks.

Awesome primer! I was looking for a Thrasios Tymna Deck w/o Hulk and i totally love this deck and the possibilities to adjust it!

One question: Since i own a LED and i want to play it, what cards would you cut to bring in Bomberman-Combo? I think only LED+Salvagers would be enough or do you think it needs more support?

Merry christmas

Kresnik

You don't really have to do much to include it I just wouldn't since Bomberman is a worse version of our other options for infinite mana.

You can shave any flex spot to make it work.

Hello ShaperSavant and AlwaysSleepy!

I have been playing this list for about five months now without duals, twister, or seal. I have included the consultation/lab man line as well.

My meta is quite competitive with 100% builds of Gitrog (piloted by Spleen), Kess Storm, CVT, Blood Pod, Edric Turns, and occasionally the Anafenza fringe list. I love PST. I can go in so many directions and always have something to do. One thing I'd like your opinion on is some form of graveyard hate. Noxious Revival can mess up graveyard targets for reanimating or top deck tutors, but I'd like something else. Gitrog is hard to disrupt with his draw triggers, but I was thinking something like Shred Memory would be flexible...possibly taking out something like Spell Pierce or Muddle? I'd love to hear your thoughts or suggestions.