Hi there, I was just wondering, how important are Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister? I'm a budget player, and those are difficult cards to find a good replacement for, any idea? (btw, I love your primer and your whole taking on kess)

They're really good to have. The combination of a wheel and Notion Thief is usually a game winning play. You should run Notion Thief either way, and I'd maybe try Winds of Change and Whispering Madness or another piece of interaction like Winds of Rebuke . Thank you!

Why no Doomsday pile?

Due to Tainted Pact requiring a singleton mana base one is more or less forced to choose Doomsday and all of the support cards (that layer better with storm, including a bunch of basic Islands) or eschew them in favour of the arguably more resilient and compact lines with the Forbidden Tutors that Kess' ability allows us to leverage in a uniquely powerful way by turning them into 1 card wincons. Doing so frees up a few slots and makes us less vunerable to hate - and that's pretty much it. Doomsday / Storm is still a good build for Kess, and these lists can still take advantage of Demonic Consultation , but Storm is hit by a lot of hate pieces. It's ultimately a meta call.

Why no lion's eye diamond?

It doesn't seem that good without it being a part of cheap Doomsday piles. Its only other real use would be to help you power out a quicker Ad Nauseam in reponse to a tutor but that is a very all-in, vunerable play and not really in line with our gameplan here.

any replacement for this cards, while im building the deck with the othe pieces

Force of will Intuition Mana Drain Arid Mesa Badlands Marsh Flats Misty Rainforest Scalding Tarn Sunken Ruins Underground Sea Verdant Catacombs Dark Confidant Grim Monolith Mana Crypt Mox Opal Mox Diamond Imperial Seal Timetwister Yawgmoth's Will

That is a lot of cards to try and replace. Most of them are lands and fast mana, so my suggestion to you would be to have a look at the following: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-cedh-mana-base/ https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-cedh-ramp/ There was also a stream recently featuring the author of these lists and Labmaniac Dan talking about budget replacements: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/396513742 Finally might I suggest if you get the chance to start playing on the playEDH discord - playtest cards are explicitly permitted and even encouraged at the competitive level. Good luck.

IIITheJManIIIthanks a lot, btw why the changes with vandalblast, fire covenant, and rolling earthquake? meta call?

Pretty much. I'm giving JVP a go at the moment - bit of a nombo with Cursed Totem but otherwise great for the deck. I've never been unhappy with Fire Covenant but the arguments against it (using life, prohibitive mana cost, not really needing an instant speed wrath) are starting to win me over. Still getting punched in the face by Tymna a fair bit so back to Rolling Earthquake - Pyroclasm is likely to get a trial run in the near future too. Vandalblast will likely rotate back in when the fast artifact mana and scepter decks inevitably become more prevalent again. All worthy cards.

Any plans to add JACE, WIELDER OF MYSTERIES?

Yes!

Why take out the isocron???

Good question. Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal + outlet such as Sensei's Divining Top or Silent Gravestone has always been a backup plan if for some reason we are taken off Labman lines. It really does not shine in Consultation Kess where it is a 3 card combo (although the situation where you have a tutor in graveyard and your dramatic scepter makes your colours, casting Kess, then the graveyard tutor makes it slightly better). Having Jace, Wielder of Mysteries now gives us redundancy for our main lines so the logic is that we really don't need the scepter combo anymore, freeing up a couple of slots as we can now cut Silent Gravestone as well which was a mediocre hate piece that just made the cut as a scepter outlet. I'm not convinced we should axe all the backup plans just yet - I am still on Praetor's Grasp for now - because having 2 labman effects will allow us to use the forbidden tutors and Plunge into Darkness much more aggressively (i.e. exile a labman effect and take something else rather than being forced to take it). However, it's on the watchlist as well. There is a lot of testing to be done to solidify the list post WAR but I'm confident scepter is gone for good.

Probably worth trying Ashiok, Dream Render over Stranglehold . Basically a draw 4 with Kess, and easier to cast.

I've considered it, and will probably try it at some stage. You do want to be careful about cards that are mostly good when Kess is out though, and I think it will die pretty quickly most of the time. I'd want to be running another wrath as well to help keep it on deck for longer.

IIITheJManIII for the third wrath could be black sun zenith? Or eathquake?

It would 100% be Pyroclasm

Dramatic reversal is still in the list btw (while Scepter is gone). is this on purpose? Also I think in the description it says "recasting a forbidden Tutor is reslient to Rest in Peace" which needs some explanation imho cause its probably just bad wording.

Love the shell of this deck though.

Dramatic Reversal is still in without Scepter on purpose.

I definitely do NOT say that in the description anywhere - what part are you referring to specifically? There is no section that has that quote. The introduction mentions that we will sometimes use our draw step to win after mentioning we have the ability to play through Rest in Peace and Rule of Law effects, which seems pretty clear. In the winning the game section, I state: "Things don't always to go plan. We might have to play around something like Rest in Peace or Rule of Law . We can cast Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries , pass, and use Consultation / Pact to deck ourselves before our draw step for the win (or you could wait until a main phase if you are using Jace, Wielder of Mysteries )."

I'm not sure how I could word this any better but I am open to suggestions.

Currently tweaking my own Kess list, which is a silly hybrid of Consultation and Grixis Twin. Also finally adding in a wheel package (rip Wheel of Fortune $100) and was using your list for some reference. I was wondering what your opinion on Narset, Parter of Veils is.

Like Notion Thief, she seems like a decent way to break symmetry on your wheels. She's 1 mana cheaper and can also serve some utility with her -2 and denying some draw, but Thief has flash and can straight up steal cards which is absolutely backbreaking.

Personally, I'll probably play her since I picked up an alternate art Japanese version, but I'm pretty sure she's just a bit too slow and vulnerable to be favored over Thief. I was thinking that a bit of redundancy would be nice, though.

I have a question about the use of Plunge into Darkness . How do you use it effectively?

What is the reason you're running Dramatic Reversal but not Isochron Scepter ?

Thoughts on Jeweled Amulet ?

Plunge can be used like Impulse but better, or more aggressively if you need a final piece to go for a win, or to dig for protection if you have everything else you need, or in times of desperation for an answer.

Dramatic Reversal is a sweet ritual, and Isochron Scepter was cut with the release of Jace, Wielder of Mysteries because it has always been a backup plan and somewhat underwhelming as a 3 card combo. You could easily find a slot for it if you like it.

Jeweled Amulet seems pretty average but I haven't tried it. Our artifact density is a little on the low side for reliable metalcraft for Mox Opal so if it helps with that and provides some more explosive T2s then maybe it's ok.