So I'm working on making this deck because my commander just got the axe by dox engine getting banned. What would you replace with timetwister and the dual lands? I can get the rest of the 99 but timetwister and the duals are too far out of my price range at the moment

Not the author of the primer, but I’d recommend you replace Timetwister with one of the above wheel effects JMan has listed ( Whispering Madness or Winds of Change ). As for the OG Duals, I replaced them with the two missing Painlands to good effect since I don’t have all the fetchlands. If you intend on running all of them, however, adding a Mountain, Snow-Covered Mountain and Snow-Covered Swamp may be a good idea so that your fetches don’t become duds too soon.

randox24 thanks for the info. I plan on running all the fetches and the 3 shock lands. I will most likely add the mountain and snow covereds as well depending on how the mana base looks

Sounds like good advice! All I might add is that there is a post I made further up the comments to a live budget manabase brew and budget list by PlayEDH comp Admin Timmy with Dan from the Labmaniacs. If there are other cards out of your price range I'd consider looking at the core list linked in the primer and filling gaps with other suitable cards from the 'maybeboard' or as always joining us for some webcam games on PlayEDH where proxies are permitted!

IIITheJManIII I would love to join but I only have my laptop and dont have an external camera to play

You can use your phone as a camera if that is an option for you, although I can't help you with exactly how this is done as I use a webcam.

I have those downloaded and set up I just need to get a phone holder so it can hold my phone high enough to see my entire playmat

What about running Dark Deal or Mana Leak? Is damnation to high a cmc for a boardwipe?

I have a Kess deck that's a discard/wheel for casual play but am really tempted to build a cEDH level deck after seeing your deck and a few others.

What about Waste Not or would change the direction of your deck?

I'm not a fan of Dark Deal - we have way better wheels or other options if budget is a factor. Mana Leak is ok, you could get away with that for sure. Yes, I believe Damnation's cmc is too high. If I wanted to go up to 4 wraths I might consider Yahenni's Expertise at 4cmc, but I'm happy with Toxic Deluge, Rolling Earthquake and Pyroclasm.

Waste Not is not where we want to be. If you're looking for a deck that is more actively trying to assemble a Wheel + Wheel Payoff effect, then Tymna + Kraum Opus Thief is what you want to look at. Even then, Waste Not is generally considered the worst payoff that still makes the cut.

@Redshift_cEDH:

I recently built a powered down version of Kess Consultation, and so far from recent stress tests, this deck is hilarious and salt inducing for opponents. +1.

Intuition is absurd, atrocious, and hilarious. I played in a few tournament EDH pods last night @ an LGS and dumped a turn 2 Intuition for Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, and Snapcaster Mage in one of those games. An opponent on Jhoira Cheerios tried to start directing traffic from there and his salt was beautiful.

Thoughts on the primer/deck:

1. I don't see any sort of primer on here for Intuition piles, especially as they relate to the deck. I think that could provide some insight to newer pilots who are wondering how it fits into the overall gameplan of the deck.

2. Outside of Toxic Deluge and Pyroclasm, Rolling Earthquake, and maybe Cyclonic Rift, I see no other creature oriented wraths in the main list. Personally I run Whipflare as a secondary Clasm, alongside Pyroclasm and Toxic Deluge, but I've been debating running Anger of the Gods to make sure stuff stays dead. I've also been debating Bontu's Last Reckoning and/or Black Sun's Zenith as an additional wrath on place of Whipflare. Any thoughts in this regard?

Thanks for your time. Again, a great deck, especially for environments that try to ban infinite combos from happening.

I'd also like to put a plug in for Emergence Zone , as it enables instant speed wins from out of nowhere. I've been using to good effect, and can be found through any number of means (Expedition Map, any sort of draw or tutor, etc.).

Also, Day's Undoing off of Emergence Zone is a decent workaround for people who don't have a Timetwister in their collection.

Can you explain the Stranglehold cut?

I needed a cut for Dockside Extortionist , and generally since the Paradox Engine ban Consultation strategies have become more prevalent meaning more decks can win without searching. I still love the card and have found it to be very impactful in practice.

Hello Redshift, I was looking for a new cEDH build/idea and ran across a Kess in my binder. I started looking and found your primer so I took my Tasigur semi competitive list and built Kess as close to your list as budget would allow. I'm missing a few key pieces but will soon acquire them. I have only played this deck once in last Tuesdays EDH league and I must say I'm impressed! Its resistance to Hushwing effects and the like is amazing! I of course misplayed and let one of my opponents sneak in a Top combo. However I can definitely see how resilient this deck will be when complete. Thank you for this awesome primer! Any advice on meta Includes VS. Kenrith Hulk combo (that has T3 win potential) and Elsha Artifact/Control (that's won the last 4 weeks in a row)? Any help...really! Lol.

I meant Aven Mindcensor and the like not Hushwing.

Any reason why Entomb is not on the list? Since we are able to cast instans/sorcieries from our gaveyard, and entomb can grab any card, not just creatures, it becomes a 1 black instant speed tutor.

@fonthiel: from my experience with this deck, we really want to limit the amount of cards that are only relevant while kess is on the battlefield. i believe this line of thinking is what you need to build a highly consistent deck :) that’s why this list is so strong, there are so few dead cards.

Why didn't you list Blood Moon or Back to Basics as a weakness of this deck in your section? I guess with the amount of non-basics we have to run this is usually a big problem.

Also how do you deal with graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Relic of Progenitus ?

I don't consider non-basic hate a big weakness, although it's not ideal. We have a lot of artifact mana and can fetch basics. As for dealing with grave hate, we can assemble LabJace and a forbidden tutor and do it manually so to speak, or Labman and a draw instead of LabJace. We don't really need the graveyard and if those pieces are hurting a hulk deck at the table it might be best to leave them and do it the long way.

What is your opinion on Divining Witch ? Is the nonbo with totem what takes her out of the deck?

I rate Divining Witch at around 1000000 SHU. The higher mana cost (although it's split across turns, mitigating this factor slightly), broadcasting the effect and not necessarily being able to use it straight away - particularly post naus/necro/wheel, having to pitch a card and the effect being stapled to a fragile body are the downsides. The upside is that it's harder to counter the exile effect as it is an ability. This is relevant, but in my experience this often isn't the way that opponents interact with our combo. They're going to try to let you exile your deck and remove the labman effect if they can. It's certainly an interesting card!

I like the deck. HAve you thought about Spellseeker ? 3 mana is a bit expensive, but can grab Consultation/Tainted Pact, or can grab Pact of Negation/ cheap counterspell if you already have the combo ready to go.

Thanks! I have thought about Spellseeker but it doesn't make the cut for me. I'd be looking at Grim Tutor first and that still doesn't quite make it into my 100 mostly due to the CMC. The thing is, we are ideally attempting a win after a big haymaker play that accrues us heaps of value. Something like sticking an Ad Nauseam , or Notion Thief + a wheel. In longer games this might look more like riding a Mystic Remora for a few turn cycles. This is not always how it goes of course but it's the plan, it's how we'd prefer to piece the combo together rather than assemble the pieces individually by tutoring. Spellseeker can't get Naus, Necro, Dockside, Wheels, Notion Thief, etc.

Hello! I play Kess Consultation too and I have a couple of questions:

1.) Is Emergence Zone worth including for instant-speed wins?

2.) Would you include Underworld Breach as a 2nd YawgWill?

3.) What would you cut for the 3rd LabMan, Thassa's Oracle ?

Thanks in advance!