How come can Duress do a better job than Thoughtseize ? What if the biggest threat in opp's hand is a creature?

Also, a bit more draw engine is essential I believe, any blue-coloured control will make a huge card advantage on you in no time.

The Duress//Thoughtseize debate rages on. While both have their merits, and both shine more than the other in their own unique circumstances, you cannot truly give one more credit than the other. Each specializes in what they do.

While Duress removes all things nonland/noncreature, spells are usually big nuisances, and deserving of removal. It does it without additional cost or sacrifice on behalf of the caster. Which happens to be one of the biggest reasons it is more coveted than Thoughtseize; that and a price different of like $24.50, lol. The smaller price tag is a motivating factor too, because a playset of Duress is obviously far cheaper, and much more obtainable than a playset of Thoughtseize; unless money is no object to you, in which case, please message me and I will glad accept a donation of a playset of Thoughtseize from you without a second thought, lol.

Now, for the other side of the coin, Thoughtseize. Immediately, the ability to get rid of anything nonland, already helps in explaining the love people have for Thoughtseize. Planeswalker? Gone!! Fattie with a cantrip bonus? Hasta la vista!! Super nasty piece of removal? You're outta here!! The list of course, goes on and on like a song by Journey. However, in addition to the price tag of 1 Black mana, you also must pay 2 life for this power. So looking at it from a Shockland heavy deck:

Turn 1: Land down a Shock land untapped; take 2 damage. Play Thoughtseize, take 2 more damage. Before your opponent has even had a chance to lay a land, you've already traded one fifth of your life total just to remove (hopefully) a nasty threat.

The debate will rage on about which is better, but the answer will always remain: both are situational. While Thoughtseize can mess up the tempo and plans of your opponent early, in the late game, it is essentially worthless for its cost. Duress, unable to target all threats early game, usually handles the real threats of the late game. Both still give you the advantage of knowing what your opponent is holding and as long as your short-term memory isn't shot, you can use that tactical advantage to win the game. However, keep in mind that this deck does have removal for days (And I'm not joking about that, just ask any of my opponents), so there is no need to worry about creatures, as most will meet their maker staring down a Dreadbore, Hero's Downfall, Mizzium Mortars, Anger of the Gods, a chump blocking High Priest, or the reflected damaged of a Boros Reckoner.

As for other control decks, mono or other, most struggle to maintain a constant cancel tempo; either they run out of mana or spells. And by the same insane narrative that suggested the idea: "If you have 50,000 monkeys at 50,000 typewriters for 50,000 years, you'll eventually get Shakespeare," if you keep throwing things at your opponent, eventually something will stick. And sometimes that is the little edge you need to win, and this deck has plenty of goodies to throw.

Thank you to all for the +1's. And thanks to TheGodofNight for the thorough explanation of Duress vs. Thoughtseize . Since he explained it so well, I feel no need to give a huge explanation, but, in short, I have so much removal for later in the game that I really don't need to take out any of their creatures with Thoughtseize . I'm looking to remove a Hero's Downfall or a planeswalker or Sphinx's Revelation , something that will cause me pain, but that cannot be taken care of with removal. Also, I am that person who brings a piece of paper and records every card in your hand with Duress , so that is an advantage in itself. And that two life, as said, in combination with two from a shock land, is like taking four life to kill a creature, when I could just remove their Underworld Connections to screw them over and Dreadbore their Desecration Demon on turn five.

::High Five:: for the assist, lol. I enjoy hearing myself type, so it is all gravy.

Thanks a lot man!

+1

I love seeing decks that are viable and different from the "Esper Control" standard. I like to see people think outside the box. I am considering running either B/R/W or U/B/R soon.

The advantage here is the life gain mechanic is stronger because of the white. I wonder what happened to the old mechanic for black. Your opponent loses life, and you gain it. Black just doesn't have the life drain it used to.

Have you thought about Warleader's Helix or Debt to the Deathless for life gain? Might come in handy against those Esper deck matches. Is that even a problem?

Debt to the Deathless is unfortunately not very useful unless I ramped for it to get off a very large one. Warleader's Helix is decent, but a bit costly, so I haven't been able to fit it in. I'm still working on it though. It definitely has its uses, but so far, I just wouldn't know where to put it.

this looks like a very solid deck i am not sure how else to improve it except maybe Whip of Erebos which has been suggested it works great with life gain and would trigger thune more often my take on her is she is a great card but like Stormbreath Dragon she is an immediate target without pro white meaning Azorius Charm Detention Sphere and a few other things that cant hit the dragon hit her no problem i would recommend Brave the Elements since most of your cards are white it would help protect them from the color of your choice preventing Detention Sphere and Azorius Charm allowing you to swing for the win more often but it would make it so your priest and reckoner dont take damage preventing the effs from triggering so its all up to you im going to be taking a look at the suggestions you posted on my deck and i love this deck it looks awesome +1 from me

I never really considered Brave the Elements , but that is actually a pretty good idea. Thanks for the input, and I have been considering switching out a couple of my creatures, particularly the archangel, so I'll update everyone with what I decide to do. Thank you for the +1.

+1. I like your deck, has a quick synergy to it. Faster than mine. Seeing how you use Duress vs Thoughtseize is neat. I never thought of that. I use Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in mine to ramp up Debt to the Deathless it's worked for me really well. Have you considered Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ?

I cannot vouch for dentalflosstycoon, but whenever I play this deck, I find most people remove my creatures as soon as possible, so I never have a large enough devotion to anything to make it worth using Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Although, it would certainly be cool if I could, but as I stated, most of the creatures in this deck are huge threats that need to be addressed as they enter the battlefield, and within one or two turns, otherwise I will win the game.

Yes, that is most certainly the case, TheGodofNight pretty much covered it, and even if two creatures stayed on the field, I simply do not have enough creatures in the deck at all to make the land worth it, and with three different colors, it is also harder to accumulate a devotion for a particular color because I have so many options. I have considered a deck with that mechanic in mind though: Nykthos into Debt to the Deathless and I may try to make one yet, but thanks for the +1.

Since you run creature heavy control, what do you think about running Purphoros, God of the Forge ?His devotion making him a creature is optional, but his first and last ability are what makes him solid. Since you mainboard Assemble the Legion he combos out for a nice 2 damage per token hitting the field. The only problem that someone could board in is Glare of Heresy to take out assemble, or Fade into Antiquity to take out a god. but that's a tough choice on their behalf with all the hate on the field.

If I do throw a god in here, it would probably be Erebos, God of the Dead because he allows for card draw and halts the opponents ability to gain life, so Gray Merchant of Asphodel is not as exciting and neither is Sphinx's Revelation or Blood Baron.

So... Where's the SB enchantment hate? This is currently an incredibly enchantment-heavy format, and you don't seem to run any enchantment removal anywhere... You might want to consider running some.

I've been meaning to put that red and white split card from Dragon's Maze in hear with the one white mana and destroy target enchantment, but I forget what it's called.

Wear / Tear

Now get to it, and good luck!

Thanks, I'll figure out how to fit it in the sideboard.

You can bypass the enchantment removal and just Magma Jet/Lightning Strike/Chump Block High Priest and remove something that way. Despite Theros being heavy with enchantments, either they have a ton of buff enchants (which a few removal spells won't affect anyway) or they are using a few as obnoxious removal (Chained to the Rocks) which can totally be removed with High Priest. Also, he deals with Artifacts as well. Well, a little food for thought...

GodOfNight= Batman?

I don't believe anyone has ever referenced me as Batman, but what the heck, I'll take it.

I didn't have to remove anything too important to add in the enchantment removal, so I'll see if it's really necessary at the next fnm and decide to keep it or not.

I looked at your deck and played it a few times. I enjoyed it a lot. It's really fast at taking care of small card decks, which one of my decks' is. I wish I had the money to get decks like yours, but as I'm on a strict budget I'm only able to buy a few cards here and there.

I was wondering if you'd take a look at my deck and let me know what you think? I'm looking for suggestions and trying to keep it cheap. Boros, Battallion, Heroic - Budget

@Syronosin Hey man, we all have to start somewhere with a dream deck. I had a Boros Aggro Deck and a Midrange Orzhov deck, and then when I saw this, I decided to combine what I had, and trade for the rest. It took me a month and a half to get all of the cards, but I committed to the deck, and boom, I now own this very deck with some mild alterations for my Local Game Shop. Even on a budget, you can wheel and deal and bargain for a deck like this, it just takes longer. I wish you the very best in assembling a powerhouse like deck. If your trade circles are small, branch out and try the MTG community on YouTube. I've found many hard to come by cards through those fine folks. If you do, be sure to check out my Channel, the name is TheGodofNight. Good luck sir.

Yeah ive been working on this deck since I saw a similar one at my local state tournament ive traded for most of the deck just a few cards left to acquire I just need to modify it a little