Excellent build! Considering the recent spike in reserved list cards - what would suggest replacing Tabernacle and Timetwister with? I have playtested Winter Orb and Days Undoing with mixed results. My Meta is currently Kess Twin, Paradox Sisay, Doomsday Breya and a bunch of aggro decks.

Heya AquaticAce26, thanks for the complements.

I think winter orb is bad; and also it does sort of the opposite of tabernacle. Tabernacle stops decks that use creatures for mana; winter orb rewards decks that use creatures for mana. For a tabernacle replacement I'd probably just run a board wipe; Yahenni's Expertise is possible, or just Wrath of God or Damnation. But if your meta doesn't have a lot of creature decks then you could just play something else more appropriate. If your meta is Sisay, Breya, and Kess, then only Sisay is really creature-based; you might just want to play another Rule of Law, or counterspell, or Imprisoned in the Moon if Sisay is the strongest of your opponents.

The best thing that Timetwister does in the deck is recur our enchantments; combo'ing with notion thief and being a strong turn-1 play are just nice extras. The next best actual wheel is Time Spiral, which is much cheaper in dollars. Although Days Undoing doesn't seem terrible. The next best recursion is probably Replenish; although I've also considered Feldon's Cane as an extreme budget option. I think if you're not going to run timetwister you do need some way to get enchantments back from the yard; so I'd experiment with some of these options...

Mistveil Plains might be the card if we are talking recursion since we trying to be both budget and slot efficient.

Thank you mmcgeach and VelvetVendetta for the suggestions - I am going slot Damnation into the deck and give it a try! I also saw your recent post about Damping Sphere and I am going to give that a try as well. I completely agree with your assessment of Chains of Mephistopheles. I currently run Spirit of the Labyrinth and I find that it frequently hurts me more often than it helps me.

Day's Undoing is definately not ideal, but it has a low CMC, can recycle my graveyard and combos with Notion Thief much in the same way Timetwister does. The main disadvantage is that it effectively ends the turn and prevents the 'end of turn' trigger from Necropotence. I do have a Replenish, but I much prefer the versatility that Day's Undoing offers for now.

Again, thank you both for your help - I have been following both of your Zur (control and reanimator) EDH decks for awhile. I am still very new to the Zur control archetype as I used to play a reanimator style deck. You both have been an incredible help in deck-building and general strategy!

I was looking at your build here, and I want to say that it's very nice. The curve is great, and the ability to control the more prevalent board states that can occur in cEDH are all here, in your build. So hats off to you.

But I do have one question, which I can't understand:

Why would you run Cartouche of Ambition over Steel of the Godhead? Steel of the Godhead just seems far superior in every way... unless the -1/-1 counter is really that useful, and I'm just not seeing it.

@crstisalie, yes, it turns out the -1/-1 counter actually is really good. There's a number of important things it kills: Aven Mindcensor is probably the most important, since that's basically the only thing that stops Zur. It's pretty cool to have the Cartouche in your hand and be able to use it as removal, instead of having it be a mostly-dead win condition. Other good stuff it kills include: Dark Confidant, Notion Thief, Hermit Druid, and even just killing an elf or Bloom Tender can be decent value. It's really pretty great to be able to grab the lifelink buff enchantment with Zur and also have it be a tempo positive play. It's a huge improvement. :)

@crstisalie Also, thank you for the kind words. I'm glad you like the build!

Yeah, I can see the usefulness there, but I have to say that making Zur unblockable has its merits, too.

Have one more question for you guys:

How do you feel about Solemnity + Decree of Silence? You're already running Mystic Remora, which obviously synergizes well with Solemnity, but I just wanted to know your thoughts.

Thanks

@crstisalie Hey, Ok.

Well for point (1), this is a competitive deck. How many competitive decks can you think of that run a 4-power creature with flying? The only possibility is Luminarch Ascension out of a blood-pod-style stax deck. So giving Zur unblockable is worth nothing. Giving Zur vigilance is pretty strong, tho. If Steel of the Godhead had been +2/+2 lifelink and vigilance, that'd be something good. Or lifelink and shroud(!). But, if you do run into some jank running a big flier and you HAVE to swing into it (like, I dunno, Atraxa or Prossh or something), remember Zur doesn't have to deal damage to trigger, so you can fetch Grasp of Fate to remove them. Or just attack one of the other players.

(2) Solemnity doesn't do anything. You basically never have time to take a tempo hit by swinging with Zur and getting a do-nothing enchantment. I mean, it's really unlikely, or you're winning by a huge margin, so it doesn't matter anyway. But, anyway, Solemnity's most likely effect is letting your Hulk Weaver opponent go off with Devoted Druid. Also, I dunno how you want to cheat in Decree of Silence. You want to run show and tell? Or a discard package + replenish? Those are more dead slots.

I understand what you're saying with Solemnity, and how on its own, it doesn't do anything, but from my perspective, you go for Solemnity when you have the decree, or a tutor in hand to fetch it out of your deck. With enough artifact ramp, getting to 8 mana, from what I've seen, isn't that hard. So, I look at it like another out. The problem is, when you're playing against a table with players playing tons of removal, Zur gets hosed, and badly at that (you can't counter everything). Using Grasp of Fate to remove the problematic commander, from what I've experienced, isn't that good. They can just usually recast it on the next turn, and it's a problem all over again. The biggest 4 powered flyer in commander, that people need to be concerned about now, in my opinion, is Jodah, Archmage Eternal.

I'm liking the build! I also have an affinity for Solemnity especially if you are playing Phyrexian Unlife.

Im really liking this build my friend, since i dont have tabernacle i'am using damnation and time spiral intead of time twister( i really like time spiral mid-late game more then timetwister)

any other sugestion to put in place of tabernacle?

and what about Greater Auromancy some games it can really help give an extra protection to all your enchants ( they wil have to kill the greater auromancy to kill the rest)

thanks!

Greater auramancy does nothing on its on, you are better off having an extra counter, it can prevent the same thing a auramancy would but can also be used to well... everything.

i see thanks,

Any sugestions for tabernacle replacement?

thanks!

Heya. I sort of disagree with VelvetVendetta here. I think greater auramancy is fine if your meta has a ton of targeted removal for Zur and for your enchantments. I've tried diplomatic immunity as a meta response to a lot of spot removal, and it's fine at locking the game up. If your meta is evoloving toward a lot of extra enchantment removal, I'd try greater auramancy. Although, if people are playing enchantment wipes like Back to Nature then you're probably better off with Spell Snare, or Replenish.

As for Tabernacle replacements, my only thought is a creature wipe... Which you're already doing. How has it been?

my meta has alot of control and spot removal thats why i tought on greater auromancy, its another option to make zur and my enchants have extra protection( i know another counter can be as good as but i can tutor it with zur when needed ( they cant counter it) i really didnt have an oportunity to use damnation yet, usually when i got it i had my zur on and didnt fell like killing it was worth.. what you sugest to replace for it?

Thanks!

actually resplenish soundslike agood ideia intead of damnation..

and i might find a spot for greater auromancy as well..

I like Greater Auramancy, too. It is very meta dependant, but it's solid. I tend to build my decks to have game in a blind meta, so it often goes in, and comes out (I'm constantly tweaking).

Also mmcgeach, I was meaning to ask why, when you were running Chains in this build, you weren't running Anvil of Bogardan along side it? It's another way to get no max handsize, and it's synergy with chains is pretty backbreaking.

yea i will replace damnation and an island for replenish and greater auramancy to see how it goes (30 land total i think shuld be fine)

if any other sugestion im open to it i like to have the deck builded for more open meta as well since it change alot

crstisalie, re: Chains. I mostly think I don't want a chains/spirit/draw hoser in the deck anymore. The play of turn 1 Chains of Mephistopheles, turn 2 Windfall, turn 3 Zur, turn 4 Necropotence doesn't happen very often. But, more importantly, discarding is something this deck doesn't want to do. There's only 2 win cons in the whole deck so if you happen to discard one it's strategically really limiting. There's also just Timetwister to get it back, so you're not really replaying stuff out of the yard. Which, of course, is by design, since you're frequently putting Rest in Peace in play, and the ability to play around that is one of the deck's great strengths. So, in some ways, Spirit of the Labyrinth is just better than chains, since it doesn't make us discard stuff. (And also, it's far superior vs. Gitrog.) But, mostly the only early card draw I see is Sylvan Library and Tymna the Weaver. So I question if it's worth running a spirit at all; especially since a wrath tends to be better against tymna decks and green-based decks in general. It feels real bad to land a spirit of the labyrinth and then draw Rhystic Study or Mystic Remora, which are (obviously) powerhouse cards. I mean, it's still good to land the spirit if you're opponents are on a draw where they have turn-2 sylvan library or are tymna/thrasios decks.

Anyway, all that said, Anvil of Bogardan was never in consideration.

To go back to an earlier point, re: Solemnity. This card just doesn't do anything. Unless you're playing against Animar, Soul of Elements every game. Solemnity does combo with Phyrexian Unlife, but, also, that's mostly just a worse way to build your own Solitary Confinement. I think just run the one solitary confinement and don't bother with solemnity + unlife. Phyrexian Unlife is very good in Zur combo decks that revolve around Ad Nauseam, but I don't think it does enough here.

Remember a big benefit of this deck is there's only 2 dead win-con cards in the whole list. Everything else is mana, gas, or permission. :)

I definitely understand that some decks want to discard, but with Necro, or Solitary confinement out, we suffer no ill-effects from Chains/Anvil (since we're skipping our draw step. It only hoses our opponents (unless they want cards in their graveyard, but then you can just drop RIP, and that's that). As far as Solemnity is concerned, I do not run it, and I never have ran it in Zur. I was simply wondering what your opinion was. I don't know if I fully agree that it's just flat out bad (Decree and Solemnity), but I do see your point.

Have you ever considered running Anguished Unmaking for spot removal? Or even Vindicate (even though it's only sorcery speed)?

I agree with crstisalie about chains... I would never cut it, the card counters most cEDH strategies just by itself while leaving Zur unscratched because the deck relies primarily on Necropotence for card adv.

Anguished Unmaking and Vindicate are just too heavy costed in such a way you are almost skipping your turn so that you can remove a permanent, it's not worth it.

Out of the two (Vindicate and Anguished Unmaking), if I had to choose only one to run, it would be AU. It's not currently in the 99, but I've considered it as a way of having some instant speed spot removal for the occasional mediocre/bad opening draw. White needs a Nature's Claim effect.

Fragmentize?