counter turn 1 thoughtseize, win turn 4

Standard ryancsaxe

SCORE: 47 | 44 COMMENTS | 8238 VIEWS | IN 7 FOLDERS


Garboza says... #1

I saw you saying that Rapid Hybridization is the only answer you have that deals with Blood Baron and Stormbreath, but you do have access to Mizzium Mortars as well. I don't know if you've considered this and decided against it, but it's one of the most common answers for those two creatures, Blood Baron in particular. Celestial Flare is another answer you might consider if those are what you're worried about specifically and want something at instant speed. I like the concept though, +1 from me!

May 20, 2014 1:54 a.m.

ryancsaxe says... #2

Garboza, that is true, I can't believe I never thought of Mizzium Mortars . It is sorcery speed and the overload will rarely be relevant, but it is worth looking at. Personally, I don't think Celestial Flare is a good fit in this deck. Although it can be very powerful, and forcing them to attack with two creatures is great with Madcap Skills , they always have to block with two creatures it is rendered a bit worse on that end. It just doesn't feel consistent enough because both of those creatures make my life very difficult if I don't have Aqueous Form as all of my creatures are white. I need to deal with them unconditionally. I will play around with Mizzium Mortars and throw it in the maybeboard, as that does seem to have the potential to fit, I am just not sure if it is a better fit than Rapid Hybridization . Thanks for the input!

May 20, 2014 10:42 a.m.

ryancsaxe says... #3

There is a competition on Tuesday where the winner gets the modern event deck and I am taking this deck there. If you have any additions or advice, please feel free to respond promptly, I believe this deck can win!

June 1, 2014 10:46 a.m.

You might want to consider going for speed over raw power. I have found Satyr Hoplite , Ordeal of Thassa , and Mizzium Skin to play extremely well in this type of tempo deck in a removal-heavy format like this. Also of note: I am fairly certain it is just always wrong to play less than 4 Gods Willing in heroic strategies; the scry is invaluable and it is simply the best protection spell you can play right now. I would cut the Detention Sphere s, the Fabled Hero s, the Aqueous Form s, and a Pursuit of Flight , move the Fiendslayers to the board, and put in +1 Gods Willing , +3 Satyr Hoplite , and +3 Ordeal of Thassa .

June 2, 2014 3:56 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #5

thanks for the comment RousseausDisciple, the one thing you are missing here is that this is not a heroic strategy, it is an aura strategy. I think you may be right with the extra Gods Willing , but I have found swan song to be useful as well, and that 4th is just a bit of a stretch. I will test it out. I played around with all three ordeals I have access to, and I just haven't found success with it. I would be willing to get rid of the Aqueous Form s for the Ordeal of Thassa s potentially at least. And my issue with Satyr Hoplite is he is not powerful enough. The more creatures I have, the less I can pump into them, and Pursuit of Flight and Fabled Hero win me games. Also, you may have misread the deck, because I do mainboard Fiendslayer Paladin and the Detention Sphere s are in the sideboard. Thanks for the tips and I will definitely look into Ordeal of Thassa and that 4th Gods Willing

June 2, 2014 4:04 p.m.

Fizzz says... #6

This deck is yes.

Period

June 2, 2014 4:14 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #7

thank you Fizzz! It's new, surprising, and powerful, glad you like it!

June 2, 2014 4:18 p.m.

DatJunkPlayer says... #8

Love the opening description, you must be a real good player opening with an untapped Shock land just to protect your voltron style deck.

June 2, 2014 10:26 p.m.

SoggyGecko says... #9

An amazing deck, +1 from me. This deck rapes most other decks out there. It killed my R/G aggro like no problem.

June 2, 2014 10:38 p.m.

Cool deck but not worth the swansong

June 2, 2014 10:43 p.m.

TheKatalyst says... #11

Creative, fun, and plays well. +1 from me.

June 2, 2014 11:45 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #12

ChickenMonkeyDuck, Swan Song is actually exactly what the deck needs. It is the only way to stop things like Celestial Flare , Devour Flesh , and Thoughtseize , all of which see mainboard play in the meta. And I would rather give somebody a 2/2 flyer in order to keep my huge creature that is about to kill them any day! It is actually powerful, and very underestimated. Plus it can counter Courser of Kruphix too!

June 3, 2014 12:39 a.m.

ryancsaxe says... #13

Bofu, when you know your opponent is running black, Thoughtseize can ruin you! in this deck I often have 1-2 creatures in my starting hand, and if I have only one, it is important to protect it! Sometimes I will even shock my first land so they don't want to try the Thoughtseize , and sometimes they will wait. This deck does not care about the life lost because it does much more damage than it takes from the lands. And thanks haha.

June 3, 2014 12:44 a.m.

Todris052 says... #14

The synergy in this deck is absolutely sick. Probably the best Heroic deck I've seen so far. +1

June 3, 2014 1:39 a.m.

RoninVX says... #15

I would be so happy if someone played a T1 Thoughtseize :/ Alas, I mostly play against people who know how to use that card.

Good to see people using Swan Song tho, +1 for the deck idea!

Might I recommend Eidolon of Countless Battles ? Even for a one-off, it would deal a ton of damage on it's own, I've had it finish me off too many times to ever wonder about how useful it can be in a similar deck :) Keep it up!

June 3, 2014 11:47 a.m.

ryancsaxe says... #16

RoninVX a turn one Thoughtseize is exactly what mono-black wants, they have no other 1-drops and taking out the best thing from your opponents starting hand is detrimental to most decks. In fact, in modern and legacy, turn one thoughtseize is a very common play.

Originally I did have Eidolon of Countless Battles , but it generally only ramped a little since this deck never has more than 2 creatures out, so yes it does well, but I found not too necessary. Although a one of may be a good idea as it's a great lategame topdeck if you have a creature, much better than another creature.

June 3, 2014 12:01 p.m.

RoninVX says... #17

Modern and Legacy are a different thing, I too use Thoughtseize , however it is most useful mostly during turn 4-5 or 7-8. Depends on the flow of the game. Standard doesn't have a lot of early game threats which are so vital to be removed with it, though modern does so I get what you mean :D But still, never have I had a person seize me turn 1. Once I had, he removed a Desac Demon and it was just a waste of a card for him + the 2 life.

Fair enough, though with the deck construction along with the auras I could see it pumping a lot a creature or two.

What do you think about Prophetic Flamespeaker ? I reckon in your build, that would be an insane bomb. It can net you some card advantage and a double striker going for a LOT of damage is never something to joke about. I personally have only played USA once, and it was control, so doubt I can say a lot. Just thinking, it'd make an amazing finisher or just a really effin good midgame board boss.

June 3, 2014 12:48 p.m.

Fizzz says... #18

I would imagine that being on the draw makes you sad when they open swamp, Thoughtseize

What would be your ideal hand to keep? And what would be the least ideal hand that you would NEED to mulligan for?

June 3, 2014 12:54 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #19

makes sense, see the meta in my local store is probably different. I would love to play where you do, because if you don't Thoughtseize me in the first 2 turns, you're dead by turn 4 almost every time. I was considering running 2 Prophetic Flamespeaker as it is a very powerful card, but my only issue with him is that with the starting 1 power, he doesn't help until I ramp him. Also, the double red can be difficult in this deck to hit turn 3, which is another reason I took out Mindsparker from my sideboard. but yes, the card advantage from flamespeaker would be perfect as there is nothing above CMC 3 in this deck. I'll play around with that one, thanks!

June 3, 2014 12:56 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #20

My ideal hand is 1-2 creatures, preferably one being a Hero of Iroas , 2 auras, 2 land, and 1-2 protection spells. If one of those protection spells is also a Boros Charm , winning turn 3-4 is not too difficult.

The mulligan depends on the match up. Most of the time you mulligan if the power or consistency of above lacks. For example you would mulligan with the following hand:

Hopeful Eidolon , Mana Confluence , Plains , Aqueous Form , Sacred Foundry , Swan Song , Boros Charm .

Even though this is similar to what you want, it lacks the strength this deck wants. You would also mulligan the following:

Fabled Hero , Fabled Hero , Hallowed Fountain , Hallowed Fountain , Swan Song , Favored Hoplite , Fiendslayer Paladin

This is just too many creatures and no auras. Not something you keep. Although if any one of those creatures was an aura, I would keep it against a match up such as B/G because I have backup creatures and some power. It depends on the match up a lot of the time.

And yes, the worst situation is keeping a hand like the following:

Hero of Iroas , Hallowed Fountain , Sacred Foundry , Ethereal Armor , Madcap Skills , Gods Willing , Boros Charm

and getting the Hero of Iroas taken away by Thoughtseize before you even get to go

June 3, 2014 1:06 p.m.

ogreland says... #21

love it +1

June 4, 2014 7:12 p.m.

Morals says... #22

June 4, 2014 7:24 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #23

Swan Song , Lol.

June 4, 2014 8:54 p.m.

Morals says... #24

Yep, because you're always going to leave mana open after tapping out just to pump your dude, or have an opener with just a 3 drop and have it removed on your opponents turn... Solid deck mate.

June 4, 2014 9:21 p.m.

ryancsaxe says... #25

to play optimally you always consider the deck you're up against. One of the few things that this deck has trouble against are things like Celestial Flare , but it does have answers as well. Let me know if you make a deck with 0 vulnerable aspects. on another note, "tapping out just to pump your dude" is not at all what this deck does. You always leave mana open for Swan Song or Gods Willing . Yes, if you play the deck incorrectly you will always get two-for-oned, but that's when you don't consider you need to protect the creature. If you don't have something good to say, that's fine, but say it constructively.

June 4, 2014 10:40 p.m.

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