Counters With Counters

Standard zombiewarfare

SCORE: 5 | 15 COMMENTS | 894 VIEWS


JeanGordon says... #1

I love this deck, it countains many answers to different kind of situations and this can be a win condition! Personally I wouldn't go with woodland bellower for the only reason that its too expensive for a aggro deck, having it in your oppenning hand can be a problem taking the place of something faster and, with managorger hydra and undergrowth champion you got your big guys. I would insted put collected company wich have similar effect but less expansive and can be cast as an instant for suprise blockers or whatever. While keeping your 4 scythe leopard in your main board I would try to introduce 2 or more servant of the scale because it trigger your hardened scale as it enter the battlefield and a second time when it dies as you move the counters. I think those tips could make your (already very competitive) deck a bit more competitive.

It is my point of view!!

Ps: Sorry if some sentences may look weird, english is not my primary langage :)

October 20, 2015 3:06 a.m.

monkeynutts85 says... #2

Are you finding you can cast a Dromoka's Command? I found when testing a variation of this deck that the +1/+1 counter was easy option, but struggled in a lot of situations to find a second option. I would -1 Dromoka's Command and +1 Feat of Resistance

I'm also not a fan of Swell of Growth. I find Retreat to Kazandu is a better option. It works with landfall, adds +1/+1 counters, which triggers with Hardened Scales

I personally run Feed the Clan in the SB over Dragonlord Dromoka. You won't get near 6 mana with a 23 base and by the time you do your either being controlled or crippled by aggro, whereas Lifegain is good even if it is 5. If you get a creature to Power 4 then you get 10.

October 20, 2015 7:39 a.m.

zombiewarfare says... #3

@monkeynutts85 I find the fight mode is relevant frequently and there are enough enchantments around that the sac enchantment mode is randomly good. I have thought of cutting back to 3. Dragonlord Dromoka is there for the control match as she really wrecks control. I have thought of cutting a couple other cards to make room for lands in the side to move to a more midrange plan against control. Thanks for the input.

October 20, 2015 7:54 a.m.

zombiewarfare says... #4

October 20, 2015 9:38 a.m.

paulbmoore1980 says... #5

I would say you are in a good position here. Your highest drop creature is 3 cmc and your biggest cmc spell is Become Immense which has delve. That being said, you could probably get away with 22 lands and be OK...
Here are some things to consider. 1/3 of your creatures require landfall to make them bigger. Play on that. Add 4 Evolving Wilds. It provides a slower type of mana fixing, but like fetches, allows for 2 land drops on a turn.
I agree with monkey nuts...Retreat to Kazandu works well here...also, Hardened Scales needs to be a 4 of...
I would also suggest Woodland Wanderer. You are running 2 colors normally, and Beastcaller Savant can tap for any color meaning that the Wanderer could enter at worst as a 4/4 and at best a 7/7. Try swapping out Den Protector to test with it and see how it works.
Having creatures with trample makes Become Immense better and as far as Swell of Growth and Natural Connection go, I think you would be better suited to running either Nissa's Pilgrimage or Animist's Awakening to drop some serious mid game landfall triggers.

October 20, 2015 1:14 p.m.

zombiewarfare says... #6

paulbmoore1980 Thanks for the detailed feedback. I took the suggestion of Retreat to Kazandu and dropped the Swell of Growths and Natural Connections. I also went to a full four of Scales which felt like I was really going all in on counters at which point Servant of the Scale feels like the better one drop. I added two Valorous Stances to increase the flexibility of the deck. I like the idea of Woodland Wanderer and could even see dropping a forest for a single Cinder Glade to help pump him reliably. I don't own any yet and plan to use this deck at FNM this week so I will see how it performs as it stands right now and work on getting a pair of the Wanderers. Cheers to all of you for the input!

October 20, 2015 4:17 p.m.

paulbmoore1980 says... #7

zombiewarfare- Cool! Just thinking out loud here. If you are willing to drop 1 forest for a Cinder Glade, would you consider dropping another for Prairie Stream? The reason why I ask is because...
1. Both the Glade and Stream can be fetched by your Windswept Heaths
2. It gives you yet another color of mana to add to Woodland Wanderer
3. At that point you won't really need the mana fixing of Beastcaller Savant which gives you an extra 4 maindeck slots to play around with, which is huge!

I am going to run 1 copy of Glade and Stream myself to test out, and I am honestly considering running 1 Swamp. I know what you are thinking, but get this...a basic swamp can be fetched by Evolving Wilds, still triggers landfall, gives me all 5 colors to abuse Woodland Wanderer (meaning he comes into play as a 7/7 Vigilance Trampler) and still has relevance by allowing me to pay for the activated abilities of Warden of the First Tree!

October 20, 2015 5:54 p.m.

BigPoppaHads says... #8

Hey dude, thanks for the feedback on my deck! That was just a super quick update after rotation and I haven't spent a whole lot of time working on that deck since, as I no longer have it assembled. Hardened Scales is still a super fun card to play though!

I'd say Beastcaller Savant doesn't exactly fit the beatdown strategy very well, though I understand it's there to help grow Woodland Wanderer. I just don't think the potential payout is high enough to take up 4 slots. I'd say Hangarback Walker is a must in any Scales deck. T1 Hardened Scales into T2 Hangarback Walker is a scary thing for opponents to be facing down.

October 20, 2015 9:57 p.m.

BigPoppaHads says... #9

I'd also suggest running a couple Abzan Falconer to get your guys through when the ground gets locked up. Really sweet top-deck in a board stall situation. It's actually won me many games.

October 20, 2015 9:59 p.m.

syandell86 says... #10

Replace Beastcaller with 4x Hangarback Walker when you get the chance.

October 26, 2015 10:02 p.m.

zombiewarfare says... #11

That is the plan I think. Which then calls Woodland Wanderer into question. Although with a singleton Cinder Glade and Scales I ought to be able to get it out as a 5/5, vigilant trampler for which is quite good and the potential for a 6/6 or bigger is real. Maybe 2xAbzan Falconer would be better though.

October 26, 2015 10:09 p.m.

syandell86 says... #12

My way of thinking is, what are the chances you get that scenario?

October 26, 2015 10:19 p.m.

zombiewarfare says... #13

In playtesting I can have 3 colors of mana or my two primary colors plus a scales on the board by turn 4 quite reliably. Either of those scenarios gives me a 5/5 Wanderer. Having 3 colors plus a scales is less reliable but is not an outlier. Clearly Beastcaller Savant makes Woodland Wanderer better though, so if I drop one it is probably best to drop the other. I have to say I haven't been this excited about tuning a deck in quite some time and really want to push this to be as competitive as possible.

October 26, 2015 10:56 p.m.

syandell86 says... #14

With the build I am using putting 2 Falconer in for 2 Undergrowth Champion, and 2 Den Protector in for the 3rd Undergrowth and 1x Endless One, I went 3-0 at Game Day against Abzan, Esper Control, and Jeskai Black. But it all depends on your play style. Have fun tuning.

October 27, 2015 12:25 a.m.

Mastery of the Unseen has proven to be a good card against control if you can get one to stick early game. Depending on your local meta, most control decks don't mainboard enchantment hate in favor of countering it outright ala Negate...The manifest ability of Mastery can't be countered and provides an easy way to get creatures on the board if you have the means to flip them. It would also help to have a bit of scry so you could filter what to manifest but unfortunately the scry lands are no more...

October 27, 2015 1:37 p.m.

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