Crimson and Ash

Legacy aeonstoremyliver

SCORE: 29 | 127 COMMENTS | 8410 VIEWS | IN 6 FOLDERS


Mayonnaze says... #1

Good lord, this is just evil. I would highly recommend Browbeat though, just because your opponent either takes 5 damage or lets you draw more burn spells. I would also consider Firebolt just because it has a flashback cost as well, which i think could come in handy.

November 8, 2012 11:20 p.m.

Mayonnaze says... #2

Oh, also Grapeshot

November 8, 2012 11:20 p.m.

I have 1x Browbeat and have considered more. For card draw I have 2x Reforge the Soul (usually for Miracle cost of course) to generate some wicked card draw AND card advantage. If it does go to turn 5, Reforge the Soul lets me dig for the win ala Fireblast and what not.

Firebolt seems weak. The Flashback is cool, but I need more Lava Spike , Chain Lightning , Rift Bolt , etc. Believe me, EVERY point of damage counts in this deck, which is why I'd like each spell to do 3 damage or more for as little as possible.

I have considered adding 4x Lotus Petal to the deck, but I wonder what I would take out and if I would gain any momentum by doing so without card draw.

November 8, 2012 11:26 p.m.

Thanks for the comments Mr. Mayonnaze!

November 8, 2012 11:27 p.m.

Mayonnaze says... #5

Haha, no problem!

Last suggestion though: How about card:Hell's Thunder?

November 8, 2012 11:39 p.m.

card:Hell's Thunder would be a great replacement for card:Chandra's Phoenix! But, I'm planning on taking the Phoenix out for Goblin Guide once I acquire 3x more.

The cheaper the converted mana cost, the better. AND the more bang for my buck, so to speak.

November 8, 2012 11:50 p.m.

Mayonnaze says... #7

Can't argue with that logic. honestly I just like card:Hell's Thunder because I think the art is cool haha

November 8, 2012 11:53 p.m.

Kaitoghost says... #8

Sulfuric Vortex is a great sideboard card for decks like Lands and Countertop.

July 21, 2013 12:58 a.m.

I considered Sulfuric Vortex and play tested in this deck vs others. Against an Aggro mirror the 2 life lost could lose me the game. So, I opted for Everlasting Torment instead. I noted also the Wither mechanic was a benefit if mine rather than my opponent's. Plus it was more of a budget card lol.

Why would Sulfuric Vortex be better than Everlasting Torment against those decks?

July 21, 2013 1:07 a.m.

Kaitoghost says... #10

Vortex is awful against agro. But against slow decks, such as Pox, Lands, or Countertop, the 2 damage per turn is tough for them to deal with, as all you really need is to get one or 2 burn spells to be ahead of them. It's strictly a sideboard card, as you said, against faster decks it's terrible.

July 21, 2013 10:23 a.m.

Arich121 says... #11

maybe Hellspark Elemental would fit here too. I know its 1 more mana than the Spark Elemental but it does have unearth.

July 24, 2013 7:16 a.m.

@ Kaitoghost Agreed. Everlasting Torment has more versatility, IMO, and the Wither is a good bonus as I'm not concerned much with losing my creatures, it's to my advantage.

@ Arich121 I had Hellspark Elemental in the deck in it's early conception, but removed it for Goblin Guide and better burn spells. I've considered replacing Ball Lightning for Hellspark Elemental , but a 6/1 Trample for RRR puts the opponent in a tight spot. Game 1 they don't see it coming as it's a rogue card, and I sometimes side it out Game 2 & 3 for Blood Moon and Everlasting Torment , pending the matchup.

July 27, 2013 1:17 p.m.

yuval says... #13

I think I'd prefer Browbeat to Reforge the Soul . I just don't like the inconsistency of miracle. Do you mulligan if it's in your opening hand?

Cool deck!

September 13, 2013 6:08 a.m.

yuval says... #14

also, Skullcrack instead of Everlasting Torment . Less mana and instant speed makes a huge difference.

September 13, 2013 6:09 a.m.

yuval says... #15

Sorry for triple comment, but you said you need sideboard help with Legacy metagame... Well, allow me to recommend Mindbreak Trap which stops those annoying Turn 0 combo decks that are pretty rampant in legacy. It can usually hose Storm as well, as can Pyrostatic Pillar .

I'd also suggest Faerie Macabre over Relic of Progenitus for dealing with graveyard shenanigans. The 0 mana makes a big difference since this deck needs to maximize its red, and the instant speed is good too and also means you can use it on Turn 0 if you need to.

Hope that was the kind of help you needed!

September 13, 2013 6:15 a.m.

I'm experimenting with Reforge the Soul at the moment, and I do tend to mulligan if it's in my opening hand. The Miracle turn 3-4 is great and 9/10 nets me a win. Browbeat I've found is typically 5 damage for 3 mana, so not worth the cost in Legacy. I may take out Reforge in favor of more burn. I plan to live test with a friend first, though.

I've been back and forth about Skullcrack . While its a great card and has its advantages, Everlasting Torment being a permanent can be much more useful. I'll continue to test with Skullcrack though.

I like the idea of Faerie Macabre . I haven't yet had to play many turn 0 plays, however that is a great hose over Relic and Crypt. My friend's Dredge deck goes off on turn two, earliest.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware of Mindbreak Trap and the Storm it beats :-) Mayhap I should be more specific in my description regarding the sideboard. I suppose the question I need to ask is if which card fits best: Shatterstorm (great for Affinity, however the CMC has me at pause), Smash to Smithereens , or Shattering Spree .

September 13, 2013 7:16 a.m.

yuval says... #17

Ah I see. well, between all of those I think Shattering Spree is the best. With 4 mana it destroys 4 artifacts making it nearly as good as Shatterstorm , but the cmc flexibility makes it better in my opinion.

September 13, 2013 4:32 p.m.

Kaitoghost says... #18

Smash to Smithereens fits the burn deck nicely, though. Destroys a problem artifact, as well as Bolt's them to the face. Burn rarely ever has enough lands to cast Shatterstorm or a big Shattering Spree .

September 13, 2013 11:15 p.m.

@yuval and @Kaitoghost, I was leaning towards Smash to Smithereens due to the burn factor. I do like Shatterstorm for the nostalgic factor haha!

Affinity and Tempered Steel decks are such powerhouses that utilize lots of artifacts to their advantage. Having spot removal for Cranial Plating is good, but Master of Etherium and Etched Champion are other threats. Etched Champion is unremovable in most cases. That was my main reasoning for Shatterstorm , as it takes out their entire board. A bit of a Ponder ing quandary...

September 15, 2013 1:51 a.m.

Kaitoghost says... #20

Save the artifact removal for Cranial Plating . Etched Champion isn't enough of a threat on it's own for you to worry about, just keep throwing burn spells at the player, and try to outrace it.

September 15, 2013 5:12 p.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #21

For your side-board ... I would put in multiples of various cards, there is no real harm in them as they can't be Detention Sphere 'd etc easily. I'll try and give suggestions, but legacy is not my main area, so I don't know the deck styles. I personally would put in enchantments as once they're on the field they are difficult to get rid of, unless they are playing green, however I don't know what kind of life-gain legacy may play, if it is something like continuous life-gain with Ivory Tower or instant like Marshaling the Troops ... never actually seen a life-gain legacy deck so I wouldn't know for sure what to look for.

So ... remove 2 Everlasting Torment for 1 Sulfuric Vortex and a Skullcrack for now, facing against other legacy players will help you decide what is more important.

I agree on removing Relic of Progenitus for Faerie Macabre , turn one legacy wins are around, and Solomon's deck is an excellent example of what to expect. You may or may not want to remove Tormod's Crypt for another one of them as well, you have to consider when they'll end up going first. Most turn 1 wins are because of graveyard effects that I've found, so removing your opponent's chance to activate his/her graveyard is kinda important. If you have the money, Mindbreak Trap s are really useful, but you could also run Leyline of the Void .

Remove 2 Red Elemental Blast s for 2 Pyroblast s, no reason but things like Detention Sphere , but there really is no reason not to.

I would remove a Smash to Smithereens for a Shattering Spree at the moment, you'll have to figure out what you'll be facing. If cheerio decks are your biggest concern like my K'nex or your Artifactory Wins deck, Shattering Spree will be useful. If it is combo decks using an artifact or two then Smash to Smithereens will be your best bet. If it is affinity, then use Shatterstorm as it will also destroy their artifact lands.

Try and get the onslaught fetchlands if you can, that would allow you to have three different lands. I may be paranoid about the Detention Sphere thing, but I've faced decks based around those types of cards.

Also, beware of using Goblin Guide , Young Pyromancer and Figure of Destiny . Considering a major component of your deck is Grim Lavamancer , cards that don't enter your graveyard will destroy some important synergy. Also, Goblin Guide won't do you much good against land heavy decks, especially against decks that win as fast or faster then you do. It gives them a better topdecking situation.

Figure of Destiny is interesting and tempting, but you are using Fireblast , fetchlands, and Barbarian Ring . Meaning you should never be getting up to that 6th land. And if you do, Swords to Plowshares , Path to Exile , Cyclonic Rift ... just to name a few. You said you were winning by turn 4-5, then what good is a card which its full potential is never seen?

Young Pyromancer ... is iffy, I've never liked him. 1/1 elementals can never really do much damage to the opponent, you have to consider that the opponent will be guaranteed to have something that can block them. I mean sure you can destroy whatever he has out, but the net damage to him will be lower, you are exchanging 2-4 damage for a 1 damage creature. The best thing that he is good for is getting out chump blockers against aggro, and nothing else.

For the replacement, Hellspark Elemental is good, but its flashback goes against your Grim Lavamancer . Ball Lightning and Elemental Appeal are powerful and can be good creature control to boot when they are forced to block with their combo creatures, however with all the land sac'ing, they may not be good choices. I really enjoy Browbeat as it is mainly used for when you have they opponent down to that little bit of health left and they are forced to let you draw 3. Draw 3, get those burn spells and boom! Dead. In terms of other creatures, Vexing Devil is a turn 1, 4 damage spell, nothing wrong there. Consider also Slagstorm and Pyroclasm against cheerio, affinity and aggro decks.

October 2, 2013 12:56 p.m.

Any sort of life gain is definitely unwanted via the opponent. Sulfuric Vortex would be good as a 1x of. Need to acquire some. I do like Skullcrack , but have often wondered if a permanent would be better suited. I'll try one in the side and see.

Faerie Macabre and Mindbreak Trap have been on my radar for some time. The Faeries seem more versatile, although Mindbreak Trap would be meta dependent.

Why the Pyroblast suggestion? It's functionally the same as Red Elemental Blast ... But it does have better art!

Good point about Figure of Destiny . At best, he's a 4/4. In regards to Goblin Guide the benefits definitely outweigh the risks. He gives me information, especially if I'm on the play. Plus, most decks play one land per turn, thus I'm not overly concerned about the land in hand. Price of Progress settles the score nicely, though.

Yeah, in testing I was underwhelmed by Young Pyromancer . I would rather have Ball Lightning or Hellspark Elemental in it's stead. I took out Ball Lightning for Pyromancer and will probably reverse that.

I've had Browbeat here before as a 1x or 2x of and actually found it to be too slow. I've also tested with Reforge the Soul and favor that over Browbeat . I suppose it depends on the matchup; opponent drawing into FoW countering Fireblast would suck donkey balls lol. I may give one or the other a go.

Vexing Devil is completely badass and I concur! Ideally it would replace Spark Elemental , however budget is holding me back ATM.

I tend to favor Slagstorm over Pyroclasm for the extra reach and utility. I can divert damage to a Planeswalker or the dome, if need be. Primarily used as a sweeper, of course. Then again, it's meta dependent.

@Femme_Fatale what are your thoughts on the land count?

October 3, 2013 3:56 a.m.

Femme_Fatale says... #23

I kept on saying Detention Sphere , but I couldn't remember the names for the other cards. They are Pithing Needle , Meddling Mage , Nevermore , Conjurer's Ban and Voidstone Gargoyle . So whenever possible I put in singletons of cards with very similar abilities, never really hinders the actual deck in many cases so, why not?

I agree for legacy on Browbeat being too slow, I'll have to playtest Reforge the Soul myself. See how lucky I get with the miracle.

On the land count you should definitely be playing 20 lands. Normally 18 lands for a low CMC RDW deck would be perfectly fine, but you are running a legacy version, meaning you have Fireblast and Barbarian Ring in there, which if you are not careful can end you up with only one mana remaining. Or what if you only have two land through the course of the game? That makes your Fireblast quite worthless. You also run Reforge the Soul , which to make it's miracle effect truly worth it you need a lot more land to finish off the opponent the turn you cast it, otherwise your giving your opponent a possible win-con right then and there. You should also consider how mana Ball Lightning s your going to put in, because your going to need to hit 3 lands frequently enough to make it worth your while.

I run 22 lands because I have a lot of spells that cost me 2 mana to 4 mana, and I need to be getting those out on the designated turn, otherwise I'm not going to guarantee myself a win right away. The bad-side, topdecking, but Reforge the Soul should help with that.

October 3, 2013 3:42 p.m.

Aha, makes sense! So that's your 'quirk' that works, as mine is typically 61 cards in a deck. Need to find that article I read on it... I'll post it on your wall when I do.

I would play no more than 2x Reforge the Soul as I really don't want it in my hand. I've been back and forth on it. On one hand refilling an empty or near empty hand with burn is awesome. On the other, what if Reforge was another burn spell...

Good point about the lands. I've found though that at 20 I can get flooded easily and top deck a Mountain when I pray it was a Lightning Bolt instead. I don't know if 18 is too few, but 19 is pushing it. I also have the Onslaught fetches on my radar and wish list, however they are far out of my price range. Maybe I'll come across a garage sale with a MtG collection asking $20 for a collection worth $2000 lol.

You may be right about adding in Reforge to fix top decking lands, though. Old school RDW/Sligh decks (back in this Old Fogey 's heyday) ran Wheel of Fortune as at least a 2x of to refill the hand with Chain Lightning and the like. Reforge the Soul is the next best option, IMO. Which is where the idea originated.

October 4, 2013 3:35 a.m.

@Femme_Fatale Quite the debate over that 61st card!!! Do a Google search and grab some popcorn lol. I suppose it makes sense more in a deck with a ton of draw and/or tutoring. In Mah Mean Green, Stomping Machine I don't see the effects much due to the tons of tutoring, Primeval Titan , and the like. In a deck like this it's a bad idea. I should remember this when constructing a deck, as sometimes I get a bit happy about adding in that 'extra' card.

October 4, 2013 3:52 a.m.

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