I do not think including Megrim effects are worth it in a deck that isn't fully dedicated to discard and even then, it's "winmore" IMO. Both of the above cards mentioned are not worth the inclusion in a deck when interaction can be substituted in it's place (I've also been up all night and didn't sleep, so take that with a grain of salt).
Do you feel differently?
Moreover, Liliana's Caress > Megrim and IMO.... Sangromancer > Fell Specter
March 5, 2021 11:09 a.m.
I guess it would/ could be considered win more, I think that i'm utilizing Memory Jar for Tergrid and in the deck itself presents both the best card draw and theft effect, I guess I was just considering how to win with it at that point when in reality Tergrid wins through resource theft and denial so yeah I think I could skip over the megrim effects until further notice. also totally forgot about Liliana's Caress , simply a cheaper Megrim good looks on that curve, also forgot about Sangromancer more bang for the buck, you're right.
March 5, 2021 11:32 a.m.
Back at it with a small tweak
- Agadeem's Awakening Flip for + Dance of the Dead
why: I feel confident with the amount of ramp and lands that i'm playing, Awakening is a little expensive regardless of the versitility. Dance lowers my curve, grants a small buff and haste. (also I still don't have access to Necromancy so the patience continues
cards i've been considering lately, perhaps better to "sideboard" the cut for them, I would like to discuss the viabilty of these cards I have in mind for tuning.
Why:
Varragoth has a good body at 2/3, Deathtouch and the ability to tutor (yes i'm also considering the opposing Opposition Agent ). I'm sure we all agree that "tutoring"is good. I feel like this deck, despite not having yet played it, needs access to it's gameplay quickly.
Political? It can accomplish that. It can be in play as soon as T1 ( Dark Ritual effects, Rocks) which only helps the then shaped draw into T3. I didn't at first realize this says "1(B): "...TARGET PLAYER..." ", however now I do. I think the card has potential, only cut I currently see is Metalworker ...feels bad, maybe Tinybones, Trinket Thief ???
Why:
RIP combo players
March 8, 2021 4:01 p.m.
I completely agree with the above. Also, be sure to note Bitter Ordeal if you want an alternative option. Just be wary of your land count if you are to make your swap, given you are technically going down 1 land.
March 9, 2021 12:36 a.m.
I really like the suggestion of " Bitter Ordeal ", I see the "gravestorm" (IM VERY INTRIGUED). I feel more more comfortable with the " Sadistic Sacrament ", I guess what I'm seeing is :
3for3/10for15 of Sadistic Sacrament VS. 3for1...maybe more? Bitter Ordeal
I got a game in against a casually optimized Torbran.
L2 W1
What I learned
Land count good, need better access to colored mana (would have resulted in a L1 W2 record)
Memory Jar is as quoted " .....devastating, breaking my back..."
the emotions of response I hoped achieved from foes has been realized.
+ Oblivion Sower - Syr Konrad, the Grim
Why: stealing lands from exile seems great, wrks with Memory Jar (rip lands from hand), works with Soul-Guide Lantern
-TO BE DISCUSSED -
CUT - Dreamstealer ADD - Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire
Why: Dreamstealer felt "cute" not impactful, preforms poorly overall as there are "better things to be doing". Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire on the other hands has a good body, deathtouch, and tutors. seems like a more impactful cards overall. Maybe add Opposition Agent instead?
March 10, 2021 6:22 p.m.
Possible land cut for colored mana is Phyrexian Tower. While it can produce double black, I am curious how often you end up using that ability. Also curious how often glacial chasm has saved and hurt you.
Oblivion sower is nice, but perhaps you're reading too much into the lack of lands or am I missing more inherent synergies aside from the small two you mentioned? Wouldn't you rather have something that directly supports your strategy, or interacts with their rather than a small benefit from a potential synergy assuming you get them together, even with the tutors in black. If you ran Diabolic Revelation as a way to get your combos/synergies together I would say go for it, but even then... However, try it out, I could be wrong.
In order of best to worst..... Opposition Agent > Varragoth > Dreamstealer. Everyone tutors in EDH, whether its fetches, ramp from deck, tutors, etc....It also fits more on the theme of your deck
Regarding Sadistic Sacrament vs. Bitter Ordeal, it's a personal choice. Do you find yourself ramping more often or sacrificing more often? If I had to include one, I would choose sacrament as it is less restrictive.
March 10, 2021 9:15 p.m.
I'm thinking of just cutting the Glacial Chasm for a Swamp , i hasn't saved me in the one set of three games, and I don't really think that i'll truly be needing it in the future. it was there for assuming the role of archenemy, can be not paid sac'd then replayed with Crucible of Worlds creating a small lock of sorts.
My friend was the one that suggested Oblivion Sower , I like the idea of ripping lands with it, as well as it's awkward 5/8 body. I do think its a little though and reaching into the casual realm which isn't really what im looking to do.
Bitter Ordeal can technically combo with the Lotus Petal loop and exile everyones Libraries(also less color intensive), but again, i'm looking at dream land. but it sounds really nice!
After some deliberation here's what I've come to:
Minus Dreamstealer plus Opposition Agent
Why: better value, answers answers
Minus Glacial Chasm plus Swamp
Why: need access to more colored mana, land count ins fine. Chasm doesn't currently do anything and doesn't tap for mana
Minus Metalworker plus Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire
Why: Metalworker is a good card, the idea pf it still works for the deck, but it requires to much set up, Varragoth i'm hoping "gets us there" also makes the deck "possibly"
March 11, 2021 9:54 a.m.
I agree with all of your statements, and this fight against the inclusion of Oblivion Sower, but again, try it out :)
Bitter Ordeal with the gravestorm combo, thats a cool idea, and as you said hard to set up. How much has combo been a nuisance in your meta out of curiosity?
March 11, 2021 4:37 p.m.
I really like mindslicer, i'm thinking more along the lines of
for it use with Smokestack , Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Alter
and
this is one bad hippie, and works well with the above mentioned Master Breeder, not to mention another sac outlet for shenans
March 12, 2021 9:16 a.m.
Sorry I didn't answer your second question, combo or none-bo's are practically in every deck i've faced in the past and I'm sure I will in the future
March 12, 2021 9:52 a.m.
Sadistic Hypnotist should definitely go in.
Token producer Endrek is a decent idea, although you only have 17 creatures so keep that in mind. I think its a good idea in theory, would need to test it out to see how it plays.
You want cards that synergize with the entirety of your strategy more than a potential small synergy. These smaller synergies are worthwhile when they can fit cohesively in the deck. Otherwise, it takes away from the focus. But again try it, I think they is a decent amount of value enough to be warranted :)
If combos are always in the meta, then definitely add sacrament. I would love to see the color drain from their face when their wincons are lost!
March 12, 2021 12:04 p.m.
Update Profet93
minus Oblivion Sower plus Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
why: i hate magical Christmas land and don't wanna get stuck in that mind state, Endrek helps the "stax" aspect, feeds Skullclamp , Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools , Smokestack , Ashnod's Altar , Phyrexian Altar . and now Sadistic Hypnotist
Minus Sheoldred, the Whispering One plus Sadistic Hypnotist
why: Sheoldred is 7cmc really late game and doesn't truly help the deck along, Profet93 I think I now see what youre getting at, she's not weak in the deck, she's just not efficient. I have Smokestack for this slot. Secondly Phyrexian Reclamation can make up for the recursion half of her. That being said, Sadistic Hypnotist because the mans a fucking baller. Also because i'm gonna love ripping hands enough said.
March 15, 2021 8:26 p.m.
correction of a spieling error**
March 15, 2021 8:28 p.m.
I agree completely with your swaps. With regards to recursion, don't forget you still have volrath's stornghold which at the cost of your draw, allows you to bypass commander tax and recur important creatures.
March 15, 2021 11:03 p.m.
Minus gravepact Plus Jeweled Lotus
Why: gravepact feels both slow and color intense, there are better things for me to be doing on T4, Jeweled Lotus is explosive and helps get our commander quicker, potentially T1 quicker
Minus Oppression plus Desolation
Why: while discard is great, I don’t see us getting the value out of Oppression until after someone’s hand has been RIP’d, effects me also (although reanimating isn’t bad in the deck, the deck isn’t built for oppression), Desolation hurts blue players is a consistent form of LD as well as kinda fills a ramp slot, I’m not at a lose of a land when I gain three for one, also I’m running Crucible of Worlds .
Minus Dread Return plus Thoughtseize
Why: Return is cute, I have better reanimating options costs 4 mana, to much. Thoughtseize says gimme and is 1 mana, fits the purpose of the deck better and is all around more utility
March 16, 2021 11:07 a.m.
Good swap on lotus. I disagree regarding Oppression vs. Desolation. Oppression forces them to either discard a permanent which you get or a non-permanent which they would have wanted. I get your hesitatation due to the symmetrical nature which you can still abuse and desolation is less symmetrical in a sense. But I think oppression has much better value. Both are good though and preference is meta dependent too. Don't forget, blue players with artifacts and green dorks can bypass this so keep that in mind.
How does All Is Dust work with your commander, if at all?
While Thoughtseize > Dread Return, Mind Twist > Thoughtseize. While it is random, costs more and doesnt provide you with information, the ceiling is much higher and I think outweighs the negatives.
March 16, 2021 4:19 p.m.
SufferFromEDHD says... #19
Yea... this is a really neat build. We are doing two very different things but I appreciate your sacrifice stax approach as well as your input on my list.
Suggestion: cut one of your 3 drop "etb sac/destroy" creatures for that Phyrexian Obliterator .
I could see Mirage Mirror adding real value.
Dream Devourer doesn't fit in your strategy but I have a feeling Guardian Beast would do just fine here ;)
March 16, 2021 4:28 p.m.
-
Oppression and Desolation are interchangeable in my mind at this point, I'd rather run them both together but I can't really see the space for it, hard cuts, hard decisions sorta thing.
-
All Is Dust was cut from the original "brainstorm" build due to hurting my stax/control pieces, I see the value in hitting other permanents being in mono-black. Living Death took this spot to me.
-
I have a Mind Twist in the mail as we speak, in what we've been discussing above I still think i'll be running Thoughtseize until i become more comfortable with the deck.
Thank you, I appreciate your appreciation. In light of your suggestion, i'm looking at cutting Fleshbag Marauder for Phyrexian Obliterator . I've liked the idea of Mirage Mirror but I don't get what the potential value you see in it could be in? Is this perhaps similar value in mind to Profet93 and I's discussion over Vesuva and Thespian Stage? Likewise are you seeing the same similarities in Homeward Path and Guardian Beast ?
March 16, 2021 5:15 p.m.
Update: Many a moon have past since i've made any tunings to the deck.
here is the minuscule change since last we talked:
Minus
Basalt Monolith
Add
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Flip
Why: Basalt Monolith while goes infinite with Rings of Brighthearth , I already have an infinite mana loop set with Lotus Petal . Lili gives me better hand control and with the option of recursion. this leaves Rings on the cutting table.
Minus
Agadeem's Awakening
Flip Add
War Room
Why: War Room is card draw plain and simple, regardless of awakening "ALSO" being a land, all im really looking for is card draw.
Minus
Fleshbag Marauder
Add
Phyrexian Obliterator
Why: Fleshbag although the OG is the weakest of the flesh bag effects. Obliterator is an aggressive threat that demands to be dealt with or the game practically ends, is a good finisher, probably the most punishing card I could ever imagine seeing in a Tergrid deck.
March 30, 2021 12:22 p.m.
Minus: Thoughtseize Add: Mind Twist
Minus: Unearth Add: Necromancy
Minus: Desolation Add: Oppression
April 12, 2021 12:01 p.m.
I just saw another infinite mana line in the deck just the other day i hadn't seen before:
Cabal Coffers + Deserted Temple + Rings of Brighthearth = Infinite Black Mana
April 13, 2021 2:58 p.m.
Yes, I thought you were aware of that, my bad, I should have mentioned. I love that combo because it is land based so its resilient.
When was the last time you played this deck in person?
MLS91 says... #1
Profet93
I was doing some research as per your question about Memory Jar and came across some pretty insightful articles more or less about the extended formats it was in at the time (or not actually considering Memory Jar is and currently is the only card to have ever been pre-banned before release) and came across some pretty sick interactions I have more then well overlooked, such as Megrim effects. Luckily there are several copies at my local shop (next pick up), and of "megrim" effects I have noted to 2 that I would most like to include in the deck.
Those being the cards:
Megrim
&
Fell Specter
March 5, 2021 10:46 a.m.