edit - took out 2 Broken Concentration from the Main Deck for 2 Grip of the Roil to help against Game 1 aggro match-ups without doing too poorly against control (it is a draw after all).
May 18, 2016 9:17 a.m. Edited.
UmmmmmmLOL says... #3
I haven't run into Virulent Plague too often, but what do you think would be a good solution to it?
May 18, 2016 6:52 p.m.
UmmmmmmLOL, I haven't run into any in my meta, but if you are, then I suggest using in the SD 3 Compelling Deterrence and some Negates. Since we are siding counters, most often they would not be able to play the card unless they start with one in hand and you don't have a Clash of Wills. If it happens, focus on Thing in the Ice Flip and Drowner of Hope in Game 1. Use the counterspells to defend them. If they play that card they won't be able to win with tokens either. Just be patient Game 1. Scatter to the Winds is also a win-con!
Game 2 you side out Grip of the Roil, Engulf the Shore and side in Negate and Compelling Deterrence. It should then be completely fail-proof.
May 18, 2016 7:02 p.m. Edited.
UmmmmmmLOL, on second thought, you gave me good ideas to alter my SD. I don't need 2 Grip of the Roil on the side, Compelling Deterrence can work just as well, and with versatility against control match-ups as well. Also, Overwhelming Denial is enough as a 2-of, I put Negates on the SD, since they are easier to cast and we'll side exactly against control anyways, just like Invasive Surgery.
Take a look at my SD again, now it's ready to face Virulent Plague on game 2 with no hitch whatsoever!
I also forgot one thing last post - no one runs with that card on the MD, so you don't need anything specific against it Game 1 either. Better for you!
May 18, 2016 7:11 p.m. Edited.
UmmmmmmLOL says... #6
Thanks man, this deck looks great, strong, annoying, and easy to use. I'm pretty new, only been playing for a month, and all of the decks I have tried just get stomped at FNM by people with $200+ decks copying the pros. I'm excited to try this one out and hopefully get back at some of those guys. Already upvoted because I know I'm going to love it!
May 18, 2016 7:20 p.m.
UmmmmmmLOL, be sure to read the description and always play on your opponent's Turn. Also, against creature decks, you can't counter everything. Remember, DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR LIFE POINTS! If we pull our combo off, we win even if we have 1 life. Try to stall as much as you can, by bouncing and negating against aggro. Then use your zombies with a graveyard with 5+ cards. Also don't forget to draw if you don't use mana to counter!
Against control, just never let them play their win-cons. They will have tons of target-removal cards sitting on their hands game 1 that will get you a subtle card advantage. Play it slow, counter a lot, DRAW A TON on the end of their turns. Control rarely will be able to defeat you.
Also it is VERY ANNOYING! haha
Good luck!
May 18, 2016 7:30 p.m.
- Combo to take 3 counters out of Thing in the Ice Flip for 4 mana at their end step!
Anticipate + Epiphany at the Drownyard when x=0 + Clash of Wills targeting epiphany for x=0. 3 counters off!
- Combo to take 4 counters for 4 mana at their endstep!
2x Epiphany at the Drownyard for 1 + 2 Clash of Wills for 1!
HINT - Never use that against control! Only against pure-aggro with creatures.
May 18, 2016 7:44 p.m. Edited.
UmmmmmmLOL says... #9
It might be beneficial to take out one of the Rise from the Tides. This is a late game deck with lots of card draw, so you will probably hit one before you need it even with 3, and it's kind of a dead card in your hand early game. Maybe replace it with Jace's Sanctum to improve efficiency, or another Thing in the Ice Flip so that you still have the same number of potential wincons to pull.It might be practical to keep all 4 though, just in case you hit one on Epiphany at the Drownyard since any opponent with a brain would make you discard it no matter what is in the other pile.
May 19, 2016 12:11 p.m.
UmmmmmmLOL, maybe so... but Jace's Sanctum is sorcery speed, won't do. The point of having 4 Rise is exactly so that even if epiphany sends one to the graveyard, I can still rely on drawing another. Last FNM, I used an older version of this deck and even with 4 Rise, there were games none showed AT ALL in my hands, despite stalling for many turns. Even if you draw one early and it becomes a "dead" card, it never really bothered my game. But feel free to try something else (instant-speed!) if you put 3 copies of Rise instead!
I suggest Artificer's Epiphany or one more counter!
May 19, 2016 12:35 p.m.
Another Thing in the Ice Flip sounds a great idea, however, if you have the money for it!
May 19, 2016 12:52 p.m.
UmmmmmmLOL says... #12
Yeah sanctum might not be necessary since this deck doesn't really have mana problems because there are spells for every cost and lots of draw. I might sideboard another Thing in the Ice Flip or two just to help deal with aggro decks.
May 19, 2016 1:14 p.m.
Have you considered Profaner of the Dead? He can exploit himself to return all creatures with toughness 2 or less, or exploit your thing or drowner to return things of 3 or 4 toughness, and then is a 3/3 body for 4... and he only targets your opponent's creatures! Probably not a mainboard, but could be useful in sideboard if you find you need to keep out your zombie horde while removing their entire board... could be an amazing card if you come up against another Rise from the Tides deck! Remove all their zombies and still have yours out :)
May 19, 2016 3:32 p.m.
Harbynger...ooooh, never saw that card! Nice! Could be awesome against aggro, possibly better than Adverse Conditions and for the same cost (the minus is that it isn't instant/sorcery, but I think its worth it anyways)! Thanks for the advice! Changed my sideboard!
May 19, 2016 7 p.m.
Harbynger, I thought over and over, but in the end I decided that Adverse Conditions is just plain better than Profaner of the Dead for our deck. Why?
- It synergizes with Rise from the Tides
- Its instant, meaning I can play on their turn without tapping my mana.
- It gains me 100% chance of 2 turns of no damage (of 2 creatures), even against creatures with HASTE, what Profaner of the Dead doesn't do.
- Works against manlands, and plus denies them 1 mana their next turn (since that land stay tapped)
- It leaves a 1/1 blocker/attacker that can also net us mana in a pinch and which sinergizes with Drowner of Hope ability.
May 19, 2016 10:04 p.m. Edited.
Bloodveld, what do you think of my deck now? I can deal with manlands with Grip of the Roil, I can deal with Declaration in Stone with several counters and theres also Thing in the Ice Flip and Drowner of Hope for them to deal with.
May 19, 2016 10:25 p.m.
Seems pretty good. Just remember that The Thing in the Ice will kill all your zombies if it flips, and you'll need the open mana to cast a counter when you play your zombies. It just seems hard to win with Rise from the Tides in general.
May 20, 2016 1:09 a.m.
Bloodveld, in theory, perhaps. In practice, Ive been able to cast it many times and they kinda lingered in the board for more than 1 turn, even if when I lost. Of course, that was with my old deck that had the often-useless Crush of Tentacles.
My thinking is - against aggro, you can play it at turn 6 or so, since they don't pack much mass removal, specially game 1. Against control, game 1 you can afford to wait for turn 8-9 for a counter. And against control, youll definitely have more answers than they will as the game goes (Epiphany at the Drownyard for 8 will net you 4-6 cards, including counters and possibly another Epiphany, if they don't want you to draw a Rise, for example).
With that much card advantage, you can wait all day long until you have tons of mana and tons of counters =P
And the idea is to cast Rise from the Tides when Thing in the Ice Flip has 1 counter, so it won't shoo my zombies away, but will bounce everything else. Its very very easy to trigger Thing in this deck, but against control it won't live either way, it's there for aggro.
May 20, 2016 1:48 a.m. Edited.
control_is_the_new_black, how do you find the deck now?
May 21, 2016 11:09 p.m.
TheLegendz says... #22
This is a nice deck but how do you beat Sphinx of the Final Word, Planar Outburst or Flaying Tendrils? And how if your Rise of the Tides countered? I will build this deck. Seems fun to be played
May 21, 2016 11:57 p.m.
TheLegendz, okay, let's see...
Sphinx of the Final Word - it needs 7 mana. If your opponent plays that, then we can rise 15 zombies on our side. Or if we have Thing in the Ice Flip in the board, we can easily flip it to send the sphinx away. Also Engulf the Shore also delays the sphinx 2 turns (if you play on the turn it would attack). Drowner of Hope can't block it, but you will be hitting for 7 while the enemy is hitting for 5. In the end, there are many ways to deal with it, unless you have no cards at all.
Planar Outburst? It's a sorcery. I counter. Or I don't counter and use another Rise from the Tides next turn, or a Drowner of Hope. By the way, I always suggest casting Drowner of Hope first over Rise from the Tides. It basically will exhaust all removal answers our opponents may have in hand. Then you can cast the Zombies...
Flaying Tendrils - I counter. Same as above if I can't counter for some reason.
Virulent Plague - focus on Thing in the Ice Flip and Drowner of Hope as your win-cons. Defend them. Use Compelling Deterrence if you have it on your hand. It is in the sidedeck.
If it gets countered - I counter their counter! If Im playing against a blue deck, I know they might have counters, so I wait until I feel I have enough mana/counters before playing the zombies. Or I play if I have 2 of the cards on my hand. Again, I always cast Drowner of Hope first, so even if they have a counter, it will be used already...
It is VERY fun! =D
May 22, 2016 12:13 a.m.
TheLegendz says... #24
Snow_Lynx Well thanks, You are really kind and generous. I will build this deck, +1. This is the best deck. I didnt realize that this deck is a counter deck :D
May 22, 2016 12:29 a.m.
TheLegendz, thanks! Im certain you will have a lot of fun with it!
p.s - Well, in my defense, it IS in the deck's name that it is based on counters... =P
Snow_Lynx says... #1
Edit - changed Oblivion Sower for Drowner of Hope. The second one has more reliable mana (2 more mana every time) and the "mana" can still block or attack, so win-win.
May 17, 2016 10:29 p.m. Edited.