Couldn't figure out how to handle Dragonlord Dromoka last night.. how would you go about it?

Rich1990... I can only think of delaying it with Grip of the Roil and Engulf the Shore. The idea is to win with your 10-12 zombie army, so if you can't manage to draw the card or if the zombies have been decimated, sadly there's not much that you can do. If you have 10 zombies, a puny 5/7 lifelink dragon can't do much to you, they die in 2 turns.

The other option would be to flip Thing in the Ice  ^Flip, but that would require it to be with few counters exactly when Dragonlord Dromoka enters, so you can return it back to their hands...

You can also side in Drowner of Hope to tap him for 2 turns while you go in for 10 damage...

Heyyy, Can you tell us the combo of this deck? I bought this deck but sometimes i still lose with aggro and handle deck. The handle deck uses Isolation Zone, Stasis Snare or anything like that to stop my Thing in the Ice  ^Flip. Also my friend that easly use counter while i have no mana plus they can cast spell with 1 mana, So wasting if i counter it with 2-3 mana, Also Rise from the Tides need more mana to cast because if i all my mana tapped they will easly counter that spell.As long as i have this deck, This deck is very fun, All of my friend wont duel with me because i counter their creatures. But if i face some aggros deck i will be killed at the early game. I know this deck have a weakness like Sphinx of the Final Word Or fast aggro. Maybe some Dispel maybe work for that counter or damagin to creature or player with instant.

I'm a relative noob, but started playing with this deck. I destroy my friend's green/black deck every time. I think they're just completely uneven. Question: In Magic is there such a thing as a well-rounded deck? Can I build a deck for $100 and take it to Friday night magic and be competitive against all kinds of decks or is it more likely that i'll need a couple decks -- one to try and counter this control deck another to try and counter an aggro deck, etc?

In magic, the competitive decks are competitive because they are well-rounded, have lots of answers etc.

As for your second question, you can build budget decks and stand a decent chance at FNM, this deck for example, is going to stand a chance against most decks if piloted correctly and if you sideboard smartly etc. I run a budget UW spirit tempo deck that only costs $35, and gets me a 3-1 win-loss record pretty much every FNM I go to against some pretty competitive decks.

Obviously, certain decks will perform better against certain other decks, but a good deck will be able to at least sideboard to improve its performance against its weaker matchups.

Took out 2 Engulf the Shore, 2 Shorecrasher Elemental and 1 Epiphany at the Drownyard. Added 4 Adverse Conditions and one Sphinx of the Final Word.

I don't find Engulf the Shore that useful in many situations. Several creature decks have creatures with "enter the field" effects that I hate to trigger. Similarly, it sucks for manlands since they can normally just put them down again. Adverse Conditions seems to be way better, leaving also a blocker/mana for the same cost.

Unless your opponent has 3+ creatures, I find it more appealing.

This looks completely playable, glad you were able to get it where you wanted it to be. If i was to suggest one card you might be able to make use of it would be westvale abbey. If you have an idle turn where you are waiting to counter and you don't end up needing to, the abbey could help generate a board presence. Not to mention the rise from the tides could also enable it big time.

Fala cara, sou brasileiro e to seguindo esse deck (muito bom por sinal, parabns)! Em muitos momentos voc diz estar usando 4 Adverse Conditions mas no seu main s tem 2 e 4 Engulf the Shore. O deck t desatualizado ou voc voltou atrs e achou o Engulf melhor??? Valeu!!!

crosleydr - eu voltei a mudar, porque meu meta esta cheio de control (variacao de seasons past, mais especificamente).

O deck bom, mas la onde jogo tenho tomado um pau do Tireless Tracker. Essa carta ganha o jogo sozinha contra meu deck, porque se eu nao conseguir fazer counter, ela fornece dezenas de draws ao adversario e fica gigante. E contra control eu preciso aguardar ate ter 8-9 manas para poder usar meu Rise from the Tides - porque eles sempre vao ter um Languish na mao.

Mas se no seu meta voce encontra mais aggro, recomendo usar 2 Adverse Conditions e tirar 2 Broken Concentration (mudei o deck ontem mesmo colocando mais counters, justamente devido ao meta).

Quanto a carta Comparative Analysis, voce pode ou usar ela, pode usar Epiphany at the Drownyard ou Dragonlord's Prerogative. Ainda nao estou seguro qual delas a melhor em cada caso. Contra aggro e para flipar o Thing in the Ice  ^Flip, epiphany e a mais rapida - mas pode millar seu win-con. Dragonlord's Prerogative seria a melhor em jogos longos - caso a carta venha e vc no precise usar as manas para um counter no turno. Por isso, deixei Comparative Analysis no MD, que um meio-termo.

Muita coisa depende do seu meta... e um deck dificil de jogar porque voc tem que ter uma otima nocao do que counterar e o que deixar cair.

crosleydr, pensando bem, seria melhor ter mais draw do que simplesmente counters. Por isso mudei e coloquei 4 Comparative Analysis. Afinal, draw serve tanto para aggro quanto para control. E tem surge, o que ajuda no custo de mana se vc jogar um Thing in the Ice  ^Flip, Anticipate ou Clash of Wills no mesmo turno.

Why you changed this deck? I mean you need to give us a reason of changing cards, Plus i have the "old" deck of this deck.. Im very confused because everytime i checked this deck, this deck always changing. Can you make a correct one? Need negate for mainboard because not everyone just cast a spell. Sometimes they cast instant or soccery or enchantment. You know its wasting if we counter an instant spell with scatter or void scatter

So hey bud, was looking at cards I have and came across something that might be useful to you. Comparative analysis, tamiyo's journal, and thopter spy network. Comparative helps you maintain draw and helps both the spy network and the journal. The journals ability to sac and get the perfect card for the situation you are in is too good in a deck like this. The spy network will keep dropping in thopters while you wait for your deck to go off. I don't know if you are playing it this way or not, but I can't imagine you are just turn 2 thing in the ice to just watch it get hit with ultimate price(or whatever) and be gone. Not sure if you will like the idea or not, but there is some good synergy there, and it would give you a few blockers in the earlier game, and give you a tutor on a stick.

TheLegendz, sorry, not everytime I can keep up with the changes. But I will try to update the last few changes.

Negate, however, was never MD, and never will be. It can be put in the side, but I feel like 12 counters is already enough. If you feel you need more counters for you meta, you can go and change the deck slightly. Im aware of my own meta (filled with seasons past). We only need more counters against black/control for hand removal and languish cards, so I opted for Invasive Surgery in the SD. Why? Because it allows us to use Rise from the Tides with 7 mana, leaving 1 mana open to counter Languish. The difference between 7 and 9 manas are like between the heaven and earth. So playing Rise at turn 7 can potentially win us the game instead of a loss.

Hyperalgialysis, did you notice my deck already has Comparative Analysis? I tried running Epiphany at the Drownyard and Dragonlord's Prerogative, but I didn't like neither for different reasons (first one can mill our win-con, second one seems too hard to cast). So Im sticking with the middle term.

About Tamiyo's Journal, I THINK I found a cheaper/faster option, Trail of Evidence, it's only 3 mana and has very good sinergy with the deck. Again, the difference between 3 and 5 mana is not to be underestimated. Im running just 1 in the MD right now, because I don't know what to cut to run 3...so I put 2 in the SD. It is specially good against control, since the ones I've been playing against love to cast Tireless Tracker, which leaves me with huge card disadvantage.

p.s: I don't see how Thopter Spy Network can help me at all. I don't have any artifact, and to combine it with Tamiyo's Journal will need a PERFECT hand, plus turn 4-5 tapped mana, plus using lots of cards that don't have any sinergy with Rise (they are not sorceries or instants)

So somehow i meant trail of evidence for comparative analysis so that was a mistake on my part. The idea I had was that if you are churning out clue tokens, they are never removed unless you sacrifice them so you would get a thopter on your upkeep. I was thinking that 1 or 2 journals would give you the ability to grab a second copy of rise from the tides. I apologize for the confusion I am not sure how I got conparative and trail jumbled. Anyway getting back to the point, if you get to flip the thing in the ice great. If not, you have some other options with my idea. Do what you would think is best, but I have been tinkering with the spy network and trail for a couple days now and it seems like clue tokens almost never leave. The journal is just great if you get to where you have a handful of clues out, your opponent casts something you don't have the right card for and you just quickly sac tokens and get what you need. I get that your rise from the tides is your win condition, but coming down on a few slots to make room for a tutor on a stick and the potential to swing with flying tokens and draw from them seems like it would be a good fit. I always say that if someone gives me a suggestion I will playtest it and see if it makes things better. At any rate, your deck is running a bit low on creatures and the thopter tokens might help a little against a lot of match ups in the creature heavy standard we are in right now.

Hyperalgialysis, that's true, but don't you find it very slow, though? You said Skywise Teachings was slow, and that was 1 card. How slow would it be to find 2 cards and tap mana for turn 4 and turn 5 in order to get a thopter turn 6?

Against aggro like humans, they won't ever let me get 5-6 mana easily, unless I use counter/engulf/grip basically every turn. So I can't see how a combination of 2 cards can help me there. On the control match-up, however, they can work, if you mean Trail of Evidence + Thopter Spy Network. Even so, if I don't run 4 copies, I don't have much certainty of drawing them together in a single match. If I do run 4 copies, it will mess heavily with Rise.

But let's say Im willing to try. What would you cut in my deck to make space for Trail of Evidence, Thopter Spy Network and Tamiyo's Journal? If I find the idea good enough, I might test it out.

Try toying around with different combinations of the spells you are already running. Maybe 3 of each and see how it fairs. Then adjust as it as you see it played out. You dont need play sets of each of the add ins either. I would only use 2 journals and 3 networks and 3 trails. The journals dont need to hit turn 5, and the networks dont need to hit turn 4, but the trail almost certainly needs to hit early. The way I am looking at it is you more than likely do a lot on your opponents turn. As such if they don't do anything you need to counter, sac a clue. Keep that hand full. If you get into the late game, as I am sure happens a lot the spy network and journal can pull you a win con without you having to use mana you need to keep open for counters. It is just something to kick around. I can't say that it will make it better, but I can say that the three together are very powerful, especially in an instant sorcery heavy deck like this. One other thing to consider is that even if you don't go the route i suggest above, you can toss in artificers epiphany if you run more trail of evidence. You will always have a clue token, and you will always get to draw 2 at instant speed with no downside.

Hyperalgialysis, Artificer's Epiphany is actually a good choice! I used to run it but then tried epiphany instead... but now that I can have artifacts around, it can see play!

But why you use Artificer's Epiphany You know we are not controlling any artifact here, And thanks for the changelog. I really like this deck, I will use this deck for my local FNM

Maybe you should get a clue dude! No seriously the clue tokens created by trail of evidence are artifacts. I am working on a build that uses the trail and the red grid enchantment that lets me tap 2 untapped artifacts i control and deal 1 damage. The goal is to counter,burn,bounce anything and tap a million clues for 500,000 damage

TheLegendz, with Trail of Evidence we can generate artifacts easily (clues are artifacts). Besides, discarding a card isn't all that bad for us - we want to build a graveyard! And 3 mana is a good cost, fits well since we have plenty of 2 mana spells (Thing in the Ice  ^Flip, Anticipate and Grip of the Roil with surge), so we can play 2 spells on turn 5 easily.

I still need to test the deck with Trail of Evidence, though, so please let me know how you are playing with the deck - and if it's magic online or table magic that you are playing. Im gonna buy a MTGO account just to test this deck, I think. Just playing fridays is kinda testing on my patience.

I have been in the same boat myself before bud. Sorry I don't have the cards to rebuild this and test it myself. I do however have a solution to your lack of ability to play. First and the more expensive is to try and find the theros hydra, horde, and god mini game decks. The hydra is like $20 on amazon the other 2 are $10 and your lgs may even have some laying around. They come with rules but basically you play against them by yourself, and if you can beat them your deck should fair pretty well. I like them a lot, but for a harder challenge and cheaper way I have an alternate solution. Awhilr back wizards published an article where some guys took like 60 zombie tokens a bunch of zombies that boost other zombies and then ridiculous cards like barter in blood in garruks wake etc. And made the game up where you get three turns to set up, and after the third turn you reveal cards from the top of the deck until you reveal a non token. They all hit play in unison, including the non token, and they all have haste much attack each turn if able. The deck "lost" when all the zombies had been killed, and the deck had no more cards to play. If the deck would lose life or take damage it mills a card for each life lost. It is fun to play against but it is more for multiple people to play against everyone shares a life total of 20 per player etc. To modify this to improve my decks for playtesting I take 5 1/1 tokens 5 2/2 tokens 5 3/3 tokens 5 4/4 tokens and 5/5 tokens and then add in 10 removal spells and 1 of each of the archetypes and follow the same rules as above except you get three turns and then everytime it is the decks turn it flips 3 cards and plays them. Now I played it where you could counter anything the deck played or if a creature the deck controls get unsummoned it dies. I also played in such a way that if one of my creatures was to get hit with murder, I would pick the best one. This way you at least get a feel for how your deck really plays, and how it can handle super aggresive build(dont forget the deck could flip 5/5s turn 3) dont know if this will help you at all, but I know it did wonders for me in play testing.

Hyperalgialysis, sorry, I pretty much didn't understand anything you said... did you really post in the right place? I tried to understand, but failed...

Anyways, there's another proposition I want to try in the deck - to change 4 Clash of Wills to 4 Calculated Dismissal. The reason is simple - I need the Scry. This deck is all about setting the right combo pieces and using magics. I always lose when Im either flooded with lands or don't get to draw any. The draw cards and the scry are very much needed to "filter" our luck and to get our main conditions going. Either way, Clash of Wills is terrible late game, just as Calculated Dismissal, but the second we can at least use for the Scry and to use up some of their mana.

Also, I'm VERY set on using a 4th Thing in the Ice  ^Flip. That card is pretty much our only way to win against monowhite humans. I've played against one in the FNM and WTF, they are SO FAST! They can kill me by the 4th turn or so if I don't have Thing in the Ice  ^Flip in play. If I have, however, their chances to win drop dramatically!

Seems like it might work well for you. As I always say try it and if it doesnt work, no biggie. Yeah I did post in the right place. You said you only get to play fridays. The post above outlined a way for you to test your decks at home and see if they will handle well. In the long long ago there was a list that was something like this. You need to practice your deck and cant play with anyone right now? No problem, take 10 of each land and shuffle and set across from you. Each land had a corresponding action, islands were a 2/2 flier, mountains were lighting bolts etc. The idea was that you could test your deck without needing an opponent. This was a long long time ago(5th edition I think) but it helped when you were deck building as you got to see how long it took to get your opponent to 0 experiencing resistance. The way I wrote above was to use tokens instead and "play" against them to accomplish the same goal. The theros decks were designed for this, they were called battle the horde, defeat a god, and something hydra. Basically it is like playing against an opponent, but the deck kind of plays itself. Look up battle the horde on youtube and you will see what I mean. Anyway, you dont have to buy them if you have tokens laying around you can just make your own. I may not be explaining what I am talking about well enough, but if you youtube the horde, I think you will get the idea. Before I take a deck to fnm, I make sure I can consistently beat the horde and the defeat a god decks, as it helps me see wether or not my deck can handle well, and what I may want to include in my sideboard. I also try and make it fight the token deck I described, but I dont think I explained it very well. If I can find the article again I will post it, I had it bookmarked but wizards took the page down.

Hyperalgialysis, ah, I see. I never heard of this kind of playtesting... seems interesting, Im willing to look into it.

On a side note, a brainless tides deck is doing well on some GPs with Hydrolash in the MD. As I thought about it, the card beats Grip of the Roil because it can be cast without a target AND is better against fast aggro decks to buy me a turn to use Engulf the Shore. The fact it can draw a card anytime with no target needed makes it better than Grip, so Im taking Grip out of the MD and putting Hydrolash in.

That will be very good. I completly forgot about hydrolash and I am kind of ashamed one of my favorite cards is ego erasure for a similar reason. Anyway I did a search for the crazy token thing I was talking about and found this

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/09/horde-magic-a-new-way-to-play-magic-and-survive-zombie-invasions/

Now this was modified heavily by my play group, and is very very hard to play against on your own(ours was a bit overpowered running 6 in garruks wake) but you will see the idea. Anyway take and try and modify it to fit against a single player(45 cards and flipping 3 a turn is a good balance in my opinion) and see how it goes.