Thanks Xindlepete!
I've made the changes and the deck is already looking so much better. But there's still something off about it that I can't quite put my finger on.What options do you think 'modern' will open up?June 22, 2013 12:47 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
Ohohoh I got this! Glimpse the Unthinkable ! Just kidding, those alone would blow out your budget.
Let's see... In Modern you have Mind Funeral and Hedron Crab which are nice, although you already have Mirko who Mind Funeral's every time he deals damage. Also, the Crab doesn't work too well without ramp and more lands. Speaking of which, I think you definitely need to up your land count to 23-24.
Where are the Nephalia Drownyard s? :(
Haunting Echoes and Traumatize could be some scary cards, although I'm not too sure if they're practical.
In the current build, I'm not sure if I like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind in the MB. Your opponent may be running a deck that doesn't have much for him to become, making him pretty useless. I'm also questioning Nightveil Specter because he doesn't really mill, and is difficult to use when you're playing a deck of a different color. Even if you're just using him for his first ability, it's not really doing too much milling. And last but not least, Wight of Precinct Six . I think I just have something against the card - I don't like it and never have. I don't like how it's useless against control builds, and doesn't have any form of evasion. If you're playing against a lot of aggro decks though, maybe he is a good MB choice.
Ohoh! One of my personal favorites, Nemesis of Reason . Good body, and he Jace -0's every turn!
Hope some of this helps :)
June 22, 2013 11:02 a.m.
Wow, ducttapedeckbox I really like those cards! I think I can raise the budget a little for them. just wish Glimpse the Unthinkable were possible.
I actually agree with you about Nightveil Specter , Wight of Precinct Six and a few of your other points but I don't know what to do about it. e.g. how can I implement them into this deck and what do I remove. the biggest problem with my play tests was that unless I got Invisible Stalker with his ciphers and Trepanation Blade set up quickly then it really didn't mill anything. This meant that my creatures were super weak for the duration of the game.I've shared my other mill deck with you guys also, "Budget Library Removal".I think I'm hoping to combine the ideas because both are VERY incomplete.June 22, 2013 12:07 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #5
I think you should swap Lazav and Mirko - Lazav is more useful in the SB when you can use him if you're playing against a deck with lots of fatties.
Nightveil Specter and Wight of Precinct Six can probably be removed for three Nephalia Drownyard s and either three Codex Shredder s or three Hedron Crab s.
Should you remove the Wight, Essence Harvest can probably go as well. Maybe replace it with a singleton Haunting Echoes , an additional Psychic Strike , and a fourth of the chosen one-drop mentioned above.
Your curve spikes around 2-3 a little too much, so these changes will help even that out as well.
This is just my two cents, let me know what you think!
June 22, 2013 12:39 p.m.
Xindlepete says... #6
I'm with ducttapedeckbox on many things listed here, but primarily Nephalia Drownyard and Traumatize . If you are considering doing the actual swap over to Modern, then a few other cards to consider are Tome Scour and my ALL TIME FAVORITE MILL CARD OF ALL TIME Jace's Erasure . (I even got a custom playmat made with nothing on it but the artwork for Jace's Erasure ! It's GLORIOUS!!!) Simply wonderful! If you haven't already, then check out my Grist for the Mill mono-blue mill deck. It is extended and not quite modern, but it will give you some good ideas.
Back in Zendikar block, one of my buddys made a ridiculous U/B Allies mill deck. It was pretty intense, and man those guys stack up fast! :P It focused mostly on Halimar Excavator and Hedron Crab for the mill effects, and used common fetch lands like Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse to get multiple triggers off the Crab as often as possible. Then he used other allies for their utility effects- like Agadeem Occultist to steal their beat sticks from the graveyard, Bala Ged Thief for a control aspect, and Jwari Shapeshifter to copy whichever ally best suited his needs at the moment (though 9/10 times it was Halimar Excavator ). Actually, I think I'm going to rebuild that deck myself... Pardon me a moment! :P I'll send you the link when I finish it up!
June 22, 2013 10:29 p.m.
July 4, 2013 12:33 a.m.
Xindlepete says... #8
Since you aren't running more draw engines- cards like Temple Bell or Merfolk Looter - that you can get excess draw from every turn, I think you should actually pull out the Jace's Erasure . Then you can add in another 1x Codex Shredder which will act as your guaranteed mill engines, and another 1x Tome Scour , to help ensure that no matter what you play turn one you are milling them for something. Try that simple change, and see if it works a bit better. :)
Jace's Erasure works best as the primary mill source, with a few other mill effects in the deck to help out. Like how I built my Grist for the Mill. The "grist" that goes into the mill are the draw effects, and the "mill" itself is the Jace's Erasure , grinding out their deck into nothing. :) But since your deck focuses on actual mill effects outright, you don't need the Jace's Erasure . Otherwise, this build looks REALLY solid, so a +1 from me! (when you pull it off of private, of course)
July 4, 2013 12:49 a.m.
Xindlepete says... #9
Oh. And I just noticed you don't have any lands that produce Black mana. Could be problematic for you. :P
July 4, 2013 12:50 a.m.
haha thanks. yeh technically Haunting Echoes should be in the maybe board. I wasn't sure about using it since it is my only black card.
July 4, 2013 3:22 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #12
Looks great! The only suggestion I have is to run some Swamps, and not just fetches for them :P Is the abundance of "fetches" for Hedron Crab ?
July 4, 2013 10:56 a.m.
I haven't been on this site in a while but I decided to revisit this deck.
@ ducttapedeckbox yes you are right, the fetches are for Hedron Crab . As "Update 4" shows I have replaced Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse with Grixis Panorama and Esper Panorama but I am unsure if this was a good decision. The former costs nothing to search for a land but the latter produces colorless mana.@ Xindlepete I took your advice with Jace's Erasure . Thank you.November 10, 2013 2:52 a.m.
fatality292 says... #14
Sideboard - Grafdigger's Cage for if you face opponents that enjoy their decks being milled for dredge effects or other graveyard effects...
November 15, 2013 5:29 a.m.
Thanks. Never heard of that one before and I like the mana cost. I added it to the updates section so that I can put it in the sideboard later. For now the actual sideboard section is still being used for something else (cards I own which might go in this deck).
November 15, 2013 5:42 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #16
Thought Scour is vastly better than Codex Shredder and allows for a faster win while refilling your hand. I don't know what the threshold is on keeping a deck 'budget', but Mind Funeral was around $2 each last I checked, and routinely mills for 10-14 in my experience. Along the same line, Jace's Phantasm costs less than $2 each but serves as a great blocker/attacker after turn 2 or 3. For 1cmc you can't go wrong with a 5/5 flier! It also allows for an alternate wincon if you're facing a control deck that counters all your mill spells later in the game. I would include the Phantasms before using Fog Bank or Guard Gomazoa . Putting in the final 2 Visions of Beyond is better than using Blue Sun's Zenith to me. Having 4 Ancestral Recall in a deck is always a good idea! I'd also use 4 Dimir Guildgate for color fixing if you're keeping it budget. There's nothing worse than not having enough of the correct color of mana! I'd take out a few basics for them. Try out those changes if you can and see how they work out for you!
November 18, 2013 10:01 a.m.
WovenNebula says... #17
I love the deck and a definite +1! I have a few concerns red may be a problem face against your early creatures aka Lightning Bolt and etc.. I would recommend Jace's Phantasm since it would help counteract that and it'll be pumped up in no time in the modern setting. A few other things, I know Damnation would be great in here but since its budget how bout Consume the Meek or Black Sun's Zenith to wipe the board. Leyline of the Void would be something to think about especially if it is in your opening hand. If you were using more non-basic lands like Drowned Catacomb since they are even cheaper these days you could use Vampire Nighthawk to gain life lost and a blocker for difficult creatures, another good creature would be Hedron Crab . A few cheap finishers if mill doesn't cut it would be Tombstalker or Avatar of Woe . Just a few ideas that I had in mind and my personal preferences and only add what interests you, whats your thoughts?
November 27, 2013 12:50 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #18
one more thing to add, I personally wouldn't use Psychic Strike in the modern setting since you will by far make up the two milled cards and use Mana Leak or something that is less mana intensive and you'll counter a turn earlier.
November 27, 2013 12:56 p.m.
Very nice deck! May I suggest sideboarding Leyline of the Void ? It may enter in place of Keen Stone if you see your opponent plays Eldrazi Legends. Cheers.
December 1, 2013 10:55 a.m.
Why not Drowned Catacomb ? They're sitting at $2.10 right now.
December 7, 2013 3:52 p.m.
Came here just to say that. I second Drowned Catacomb
December 7, 2013 7:38 p.m.
I can understand budget but it is totally worth the money.
December 16, 2013 1:04 a.m.
lol ninjaking92 I actually just ordered 4 of them :)
My plan is to replace 4x Mind Sculpt with 4x Glimpse the Unthinkable IRL but as far as this budget deck goes I don't think I'll be making the change.
I am also, going to replace 2x Blue Sun's Zenith with 2x Visions of Beyond to speed up my draw mechanic options since Blue Sun's Zenith doesn't pay off until turn 6 where it still cost an extra 5 mana for recycling.
Another idea is to add Ghost Quarter for some free archive traps but this is undecided because its very situational.
December 16, 2013 1:10 a.m.
How would I, and should I, make Mind Funeral a 4x instead of a 2x ?
Xindlepete says... #1
First off, not sure why this is under a modern tag... You do realize that Innistrad block doesn't rotate out until Theros block prints in September, right? :P Unless they do things differently down under, there is about a 3 month window with Two core sets and two full blocks (This year, it will be Innistrad block, M13, Return to Ravnica block, and M14), then the first set of the new block prints, and the oldest full block (Innistrad) and the older core set (M13) rotate out. Then it's about 3-4 months of slim pickin's, with only the full RTR block and M14 core set with Theros set. :) So just hold your horses there mate! :P
Onto the deck itself, I'm not 100% sure what you are going for here, but it seems to me like primary combat, with mill as a secondary win-con? If that is the case, then let's get to work!
You are running 3x Wight of Precinct Six and 3x Consuming Aberration s, and you aren't running Essence Harvest ? Why? I EXPECT BETTER OF YOU, DAMMIT!!! Seriously though, you need to find some room for it. Amazing alternate win-con, or even just bust it out for a huge swing in life, then finish them off through combat damage. Far too much utility for your creature heavy build. I would recommend dropping 1x Dimir Keyrune , 1x Psychic Strike , and 1x Consuming Aberration for 3x Essence Harvest . Will seriously help this deck's performance.
If you aren't running primary mill, then forget Codex Shredder . Not really going to do you much good otherwise.
You should sideboard 2x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker for those games where you need to swap over to full-mill mode. He would make a good swap-in over Lazav, Dimir Mastermind . Some aggro decks, and quite a lot of tribal stuff, will shut him down by making the creatures you can copy worthless by comparison. It's important to keep these match-ups in mind, where Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker will suit you much better.
I would like to point out your advice on that other mill deck (can't remember which one, sorry), wherein you mention that "every mill deck should have some sort of draw mechanic". :P Best thing to say here is follow your own advice. As far as keyrunes go, the Dimir Keyrune is just better suited to limited play, since there are much better "cipher-monkeys" in constructed. I'd say swap out the remaining three for the Dimir Cluestone s, since they give you that little bit of ramp you want, and can be sacced away later for when you need the draw. Granted, there are much better draw mechanics out there, but I feel like that would best suit your needs here. Give it a shot and see what you think. If it doesn't work out, then just pull them for the much better 3cmc alternative, Pilfered Plans . Trust me there, that is one spell you won't regret! :D
Since your deck is primarily focused on the "mill til land" effects, I think you should pull 2x Swamp s out for 2x Ghost Quarter s. They will grant you a significant edge by forcing your opponent to thin some land out of their own deck, thus maximizing the number of cards you mill through each Mind Grind effect. :) If that cuts out too much of your specific mana production, then drop the Rogue's Passage for the Ghost Quarter . Everybody rants and raves about their 27/27 unblockable Consuming Aberration , but you're strategy is much more creature heavy than those decks are. You will be much better off with the Ghost Quarter s increasing the efficiency of the few mill cards you do have.
Other than that... It actually looks pretty good. :) For claiming to not have a knack for it, this is a splendid initial attempt! You need to stop being intimidated by my knowledge of mill- I have devoted my ways to the milling arts for several years now. Mine is a wisdom- knowledge through experience- whereas yours is an intelligence- knowledge through study. :)
Try out a few of those suggestions, and see if any of it helps you out.
June 21, 2013 3:18 p.m.