@maxwread

Oh, good point! I can't expect my mana dorks to be there in a control matchup. I like your suggestion. Maybe we should run Witchstalker SB, or would losing reach not be worth it?

I'll go check out your deck, and thanks for the tip.

nice, ran pretty well in some goldfish tests. id be a bit nervous about how relatively non-interactive it is though. it seems to be exceedingly good at milling itself out, you might be able to peel back some of the self mill for some Thoughtseize or Abrupt Decay . maybe also look at the shaman/mystic balance. my understanding of how the mystic functions here is to try to pull off an extra maneuver on turn 3-5, but because the curve drops off so hard, his ramp effects dont have alot of use late game. 4 shamans might be able to handle the ramp workload while still offering lasting potency into later situations. that would be two more slots for some removal/disruption.

I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the mystic was there to allow me to keep a 1-forest opening hand and use mystic to play wayfinder. Turn 3-5 shenanigans were better served with Sylvan Caryatid .

After getting the opening plays on the board, mystics would be used to feed Lotleth Troll and then Deathrite Shaman , if needed.

If this is a poor strategy, I would like to be corrected.

no that sounds about right, i wasn't thinking about the opening hand. hm. wish there was some way to usefully sac them later aside from jarad. if thats the angle then there might be some room to squeeze a land or two then? I remember seeing a super potent deathrite shaman/nighthowler/nemesis of mortals build over the winter that ran 18 lands. i'd be scared to, but i like this kind of golgari self mill engine and I think youve pretty much got the shape for trying to set it up for the summer, just need to figure out how to squeeze in some disruption/removal probably. maybe the 8 self-mill sorceries could be trimmed? when i ran a few playtests, i was never at a loss at how to mill myself and i often had 2 of the sorcs in my hand waiting for me to set up creature positioning. im not sure, i like it though! good luck!

Enchantments are key, yet there are few disruption/removal enchantments in standard. Brain Maggot and Dictate of Erebos stand out, but one is really fragile and the other does not target.

I suppose I could swap out two milling sorceries and one Satyr Wayfinder for 3 Drown in Filth . If that'd ruin the numbers, though, I'd rather not chance it.

yea, as i was looking at it, i was really wishing that herald of torment was some kind of Nekrataal enchantment creature

as far as brain maggot's fragility is concerned, dont forget you will be pulling up plenty of enchantment creatures you can bestow on him, might be worth taking him for a spin?

or, in terms of fragility, did you mean 'vulnerable enchantment removal'? i guess the question will be 'how much enchantment removal will people start packing' when the decklists start coming back from the big events.

even at that though, Tidehollow Sculler is vulnerable to artifact removal, and he still does just fine for himself in a similar role

I won't really know unless I try it. Worst case scenario is that I hate it and replace it with something else. Thanks for the tip!

@xiao.wen- I can see a sizable amount actually. If only because of constellation and the new gods. I'd imagine Deicide will be in every SB that can run it. But, as you point out, the maggot can be buffed up, and I can just exile enchantment-hate by casting it...

Yeah, sounds like it might just work out. I'll start him as a 4-of and see.

i ran an hour of playtests last night in a mirror match between the way you had it last night, and my 'control'ish tweaks i hinted at. i woke up and you had pretty much come to the same conclusions yourself and tweaked your build much closer to what i ran against it. heres a few things i learned: 1) abrupt decay is no joke. it will rip the nighthowler off of a maggot and crush your board presence, whereas heros downfall or another creature/walker spell will leave you with a 9/9 creature after its target was removed. 2) when you go into the mirror match, nighthowler is key. he feeds off THEIR milling too, so you can board out your self mill, and board IN your control. against other matchups you need to keep the self mill engine going, but if this concept takes off and you run into another dredger, hedge self-mill for removal, because shaman and nighthowler are perfectly happy with your opponents millings.

and i feel like the wayfinder is next on the chopping block after the mystic. when i ran mirror tests last night, the mystic was definitely super holding your (previous) build back, i was exiling tons of lands with 4x shaman to make up for 2 land draws, and the mystics were basically twiddling their thumbs while the heralds clawed it out in the air.

Perhaps I should add Eater of Hope to the SB for mirror matches, and leave in the wayfinders as fodder?

I'd go with a set of destroy creature spells, but I'm hesitant to reduce the total creature count. I understand that Eater of Hope might simply cost too much mana to be playable. I might consider Agent of Fates, he is cheap, but he doesn't target.

Boon Satyr could turn the tide, however, and do so at instant speed. He'd trigger constellation also... Hm...

yea, i dont think eater is playable. and trust me i wish it was, ive cracked 4 of them, public enemy 'bulk rare' number two behind forgestoker dragon from my escapes in BNG boosters. think i have 7 forgestoker dragons. in three languages. bleh.

out of the three, agent is my favorite by a long shot, but in this case however boon satyr's constellation relevance and flash speed give it a sizable shot in the arm. i dont think theres enough ways to poke agent for the heroic sac trigger with this build. plus, satyr could actually get a massive boost over its normal marginal self because you dont even need to bestow it to get a 'boon' in this setup. you could just flash it in for 3 and still hit a creature for +X/+X from the constellation trigger. how many green/black standard enchantments have flash?

Not many. I like Boon Satyr . Not sure if he should be SB or MB. What would you chop to run the satyrs?

check out my deck? Why does everyone hate this card? +1

Love the name and the comics!

I understand the desire to cut Grisly Salvage for more constellation-helping cards, but it really hurts your dredge plan. This is fine, I just think you should think about cutting some of the less useful cards to your "supplemental" enchantment mode of attacking a game.One of the primary cards in the more typical dredge deck is Nemesis of Mortals. Here you cut Grisly Salvage (and I understand why) which reduces the explosiveness of your Nemesi, as you will very infrequently have them being castable on turn 3 in this deck, and 5/5s are fairly lackluster past that point, even if they are eventually only for two mana. It is also less necessary, as you will be able to buff your creatures more than is typical with your Strength from the Fallen s. I'm sorry I can't be any more help but I hope this has given you some food for thought.

I was running Boon Satyr in Nemesis' spot. Perhaps I could put a set of Satyr back. I'll have to try it and see if I like it. If only I could leave everything else alone...

wouldnt it be better to run grisly salvage instead of commune with the gods?

@ wardfunk

Grisly Salvage won't catch Strength from the Fallen .

commune with the gods won't catch any of your lands, which are infinitely more important to hit than an enchantment that you only run 3 of. chances are you'll miss out on way too many land drops. this fact alone justifies grisly salvage over commune with the gods, in my opinion. it really is just that much better.

@wardfunk- Thank you for the advice. I'll have to run up some proxies and test it out. I have thought about using 2x Strength of the Fallen , 3x Grisly Salvage and 4x Commune with the Gods . Maybe 3 of each. The only thing stopping me from testing for the right balance is owning but a single Salvage. I'll run it and see. I understand that Salvage is key to pre-constellation standard dredge. I honestly think that Strength deserves serious consideration, however. It really impresses me. Try it, it's a maniac.

I'd suggest Kruphix's Insight if you didn't have so many "non enchantment creatures" and for a constellation deck, you really should have more ennchantments going on...

lands: get rid of the Mana Confluence it's useless in a 2 color deck, even less useful in a golgari deck with so many mana generation. get 4x Overgrown Tomb

your deck seems half constellation, half dredge. which will make it half good. decide which theme to use and use ONE, not both.

one of your biggest win conditions, thx to Nighthowler and Strength from the Fallen is your Lotleth Troll imo you should run 4

other than that, great deck ;)