Junk is still very much a possibility, and I agree that fixing should wait at least until we know our colors a bit more.
Skeleton or Krasis sound good. This is another pack I'd rather just get on with, and if the color risk of Skeleton doesn't pay off, it at least robs (what I see as) the best card left in the pack.

+1 Rot Farm Skeleton

Between the Krasis and the Skeleton, I like the Skeleton because we can pseudo-dredge it back to push through the last few bits of damage, and it really lends itself well to an aggressive deck. Not that we are necessarily all that aggressive yet, but it is only pack four.

I was looking at Gatherer, and it really does look like this format is going to come down to who cracks the best rares/mythics. It feels like it is going to be pretty scatershot to build without the synergies provided by the other sets in the block :/

Not to suggest that we can't do it though! :D

Someone mind telling me why the skeleton is good? It's not useful for blocking and we don't want to waste our cards for the skeleton...

My reasoning is he hits hard or trades well, is reusable, and at this point to me he's the best card in the pack besides the Krasis.

Shouldn't we start with some lower cmc creatures? The krasis is good because it doesn't require us to commit to 2 colors and is a lower cmc creature which we are currently short of

+1 Rot Farm Skeleton

But we're also still in pack 4 out of however many, of round 1. We still have 40ish more picks to go. I agree with not wanting to dredge the skeleton, but at the same time, we're still in "early game" in terms of picking.

But that doesn't mean we should commit to colors this early! It doesn't mean we can be careless about our picks just because we're early in this draft. We still need to be smart and keep our options open so we should pick the single colored creatures that we are more likely to use

I agree with tempest about the skeleton. Without rouges passage or rancor he is pretty useless.

My first choice is the Cyclops but nobody wanted to go UR even though we keep seeing good picks.

+1 for the shark dinosaur battering krasis

Why the skeleton is so good is because it's about as close to an evasive 4cc 4 attack creature you are going to get without it actually having evasion. I mean would you want to trade anything to stop a card that we can just revive the next turn? Most people are just going to let that 4 damage nail them in the face unless the either are forced to stop it, or they have some regenerating blocker that they can stop it with.

In terms of the better card I do give the edge to the skeleton. 3cmc 2/1 even with evolve and trample isn't going to easily outperform a self reviving 4cmc 4/1. Sure, it can't block, but let's be honest, the Battering Krasis blocks like crap as well unless we have like the perfect curve for our deck.

The only consideration really should be how splashable both of them are since the skeleton does have a much more difficult casting cost.

If we pick the skeleton we are very likely going to use him since we already have cards to play WGb. The only reason we might drop him is if we open a pack 2 bomb that isn't WGb, but like I mentioned before it comes with an upside as well that people might be more willing to pass other Golgari cards to us in pack 2 (and probably pack 3 as well since if this made it this far there's a good chance that Golgari in general is open).

So it just comes down to which gamble you are willing to take. Either you are gambling that we will open an off-color pack 2 bomb or are gambling for a chance to be passed better cards.

Also, it may not be a terrible idea to commit to colors fairly quickly. Remember that ultimately everyone is going to be running at least 3 colors themselves which means that there's a very strong chance that all 5 colors will be wanted by the 2 people to either side alone. Mono colored cards are not that common either compared to multi colored guilds cards and those mono colored cards will be drafted at a much higher frequency. For example someone to our right wants green, and if he can't find anything better in his pack for his deck he'll draft a mono green.

But,...multi color cards are more common and they will not be drafted as frequently (if you read the table correctly, aka NOT Azorius currently). For someone to draft a golgari card they have to be running both green and black, and if I am predicting picks correctly no one to our near right should be and getting this card in pack 4 implies that no one to our left may be either (unless we got suckered and a Korozda Gorgon was just picked from this pack or something).

Either way, we really should lock in what colors we are running after opening and looking at our second pack because we either got a bomb that would require us to switch colors or we didn't and going any farther in the draft would be too dangerous to make any major switches. If we don't land that bomb though, we are going to be very grateful if our signaling and starving pays off.

I considered the Cyclops as well, but then looked at our previous packs and realized that it would be a terrible idea since someone to our right is VERY likely going UR with what has been passed. (Flux pack 1, Shock pack 2, cyclops pack 3, and another cyclops pack 4).

IF by chance those cards table, and when we see our first pack again that Flux is still there I'll be the first to charge right at them since if that Flux is still there, the rest of those cards behind it are likely as well.

I agree about the tabling aspect Supersun mentioned regarding UR.

Other than that I'm going to cast my vote for +1 Rotfarm Skeleton. Krasis is exceptionally underwhelming, especially when we won't be seeing other good evolve guys without GTC (I'm looking at you Adaptive Snapjaw). So if he gets taken along the way that's fine, but it's all the better if he gets tabled and we can take him later.

Didn't we also see a Beetleform Mage? Someone has to be playing simic by now.

Signaling only works when you are drafting with experienced drafters. Seeing as we are doing this partially as a learning experience I don't think we can lean to heavily on it. Remember each team is a hive mind and those can be extremely fickle.

I do not like the skeleton here. If we were playing against him and he attacked on turn 5 why would we not block? Because he would attack again on turn 7? Mill 4 cards loss of tempo no face damage. That is what I see from the skeleton

Fortunately, that Betleform Mage was in the same pack as the Far / Away.

If you are curious what I am guessing the 3 people to our right are in terms of color.

Someone is probably Blue, Black, and either White or Red.(P1 blue or black, Far / Away, Spike Jester or Protect / Serve,)

Someone is probably Green, Blue, and probably White(P1 blue or green, Beetleform Mage, Battering Krasis, Protect / Serve)

Someone is probably Red and Blue.(P1 blue or red, Flux, Gate, Goblin or Cyclops, Cyclops)

Though those people are not necessarily in that order, but that's approximately how I think the cards have more or less played out if I were to make those picks in their place. Look about right or would you pick something else in the pack over what I would have?

It's either tempo or card advantage.

I do admit that I tend to favor card advantage much more then I should even at the loss of tempo, and I sure as heck wouldn't block that skeleton and lose a card unless that card had absolutely no value anyway.

I'm not against the Battering Krasis though, I just think you are making him out to be better then he actually is. 2/1 is pretty terrible for 3cmc even with trample, and I don't exactly see us having a ton of high defense monsters to pump him up in the color direction we are heading (though to be fair Korozda Gorgon is a 5 toughness creature and would pair well with the Krasis, but once again we have a better chance of scoring a Korozda Gorgon in the first place if we take the skelly :P).

Also, it's not as much "signalling" as trying to ..."direct" their picks to certain colors. I'm sure they could care less about what we pick, but we can influence what THEY pick.

But we are looking at white and green which both have some high toughness creatures. And, if we plan on running renounce the guilds, then we should try not to draft too many multicolored creatures. Not saying that situation will always occur but we can try to avoid it as much as possible. And if you are correct that no one is drafting golgari Supersun, then the skeleton should wheel right?

Whoo!! Our first real debate! Lol

High Toughness creatures? I can't think of many besides maybe Maze Sentinel and the gatekeepers?

Boros Dog? no
Snare Squad? no
Battering Krasis? lol no
Mossdog? ehh, expesive for 3, but good enough I guess.

(If our 3rd color is black though that does open up that 2 drop 3 toughness creature)

It will be really hard to build a mono colored deck in DMG. That's why renounce the guilds is so good. We don't need to only draft mono colored creatures to get around Renounce the Guilds. We just need to play around it.

Also, once again, I wouldn't be against using Renounce the Guilds when the skelly is on the field if it will hit something nasty of theirs. Mine guy comes back while their guy doesn't.

In regards to the skeleton tabling.

When this pack reaches us again it will have 4 cards left in the pack.
3 of those will be Cluestones.

(Ok, maybe not necessarily all 3, but if no one has anything better to draft the skeleton will probably be pretty high on the list to hate draft).

Also, one more thing to throw out. The Battering Krasis is a common, there's a good chance we will see more where he came from while we aren't going to see a ton of the uncommon skeleton.

have you drafted at a real event before? just wondering cause i haven't and maybe you have experience and i don't in which case i would be more willing to accept the skeleton. anyone care to share your experiences?

the other way to look at it is that if they have to hate draft the skeleton, at least we get a card we can use and they don't. and i still think we should keep our options open. we could still draft bant or naya considering how open its been.

what do you guys think. we would like to hear your opinions as well

I mean I've drafted a couple times, but block. So by the time I arrived at DGM the deck was pretty much built besides support cards or bombs in color.

Where do yo draft, Chief? Almost certain one traditionally drafts block by starting out with DGM.

I've drafted a bit on MTGO and IRL; although the only triple DGM I've done is on MTGO.

Uhhhh duh when I arrive at DGM first pack lol. Wow total brain fart there, no idea why I said that. I guess I was just thinking usually when drafting it's not triple DGM so by the time you leave this pack you know what to expect/look for in packs 2 and 3.

have my arguments convinced you about switching or do you still think the skeleton is the better pick?

TheHorse you don't need other evolve cards to make this one good. your just need other creatures that are capable of evolving the krasis

Sorry for not being clear, I just meant other dudes that go well with evolve. Adaptive Snapjaw as a bad example in that sense, since he also has evolve. But I don't think we can reasonably expect to be grabbing creatures that will allow us to curve out and evolve Krasis 1 or 2 times, which is what it takes for him to be good.

Krasis is fine but he's also rather underwhelming and I think I prefer the skeleton just because he's as good as he can be on his own and we don't have an idea as to what our creature base will look like yet. Krasis is also common so I'm sure we haven't seen the last of them in any case.

I've drafted MMA once, and I've online drafted RTR block quite a bit, but have very little experience with 3xDMG as probably everyone else drafting as well.

From looking at the cards though, it'll be near impossible to draft without multicolored cards being an important part of our deck, and deciding on colors will be pretty important.

While waiting is good we can't be complacent to the point where we get something we really like because by then it will likely be too late (which is why I sorta believe the deadline should be the 1st pick of the second pack for our major colors).

Also some more statistics.

There are 40 uncommon and 60 commons (excluding gates). That means we have a 1/6 chance of seeing any common in a pack and a ~1/13 chance of seeing any specific uncommon.

Statistically there should be 4 Battering Krasis in 24 packs (though since we have already seen 2, we may see more).

There should be just under 2 Skeletons per 24 packs. We might see one more.

DGM x3 seems is new to most of us, I believe. My honest expectations at this point is to at best rule out one color until (and maybe not so much) the second pack gives something clearer to refine with.
What I will say that as much as I consider Krasis a potential pick from this pack, I dislike him in a format where half the creatures don't care about his trampling after one evolve, and he needs two to take out common gatekeeper. If that makes any sense.

(Apologies for the grammar in that one. Not quite sure what happened.)