Ok. Forwarded the pick to Caley already since it seemed very clear that it's not gonna change :P

@vic It was for nine. I will never forget that. That was the harshest of sauce.

The creature thing definitely isn't a problem at this point. Just something to keep in mind before we get too far into the first round.

If we are going B/W/R as it looks right now, we should definitely try to grab some guildgates and use the gatekeepers. Ubul Sar Gatekeepers can come in extremely handy in a pinch.

Well creatures ought to be fine. We might prioritise gates a little highly than we otherwise would, if they're in our colours, so that in later packs we get more value when everyone else is picking the mana.

Calling the crew for pick 4: vic, thebeardedshuffler, tigersfan774, VRonin, anewsome, GoldGhost012, xXBantbladesXx

This pack seems lackluster but might tell us that green doesn't seem to be picked much although it might be too early to say that already. I have two questions in mind: should we stay with our 3 colors or maybe shift to green a bit? And: should we now pick some dudes or try to start with the color fixing / gate collecting?

The foil gate is quite tempting (lol), apart from that I would be inclined to pick the hired Torturer or the Maaka.

I don't really have a vote yet, it's time for actual discussion, poeple!

Green's a pretty strong color in Dragon's Maze. Gruul, Selesnya, Golgari and Simic all have done well in drafts I've seen/participated in. Usually I'm all, "yeah, let's add some green!", but for some reason I'm wary. Maybe cause the B/R/W we have so far seems solid. Or maybe I'm too concerned about the impact of Woodlot Crawler. :/

Now does this mean that hypothetically in our next pack there's a Volraz or Voice we should just let it slide away? HELL NO. Hate drafting is a nice alternative to potentially shooting ourselves in the foot. Course if we pull a Voice we'd have almost no choice but to splash green for it.

I think we should start picking some dudes. Cause really, the guildgates will most likely still be around a few picks down the road.

Anyway I'm thinking the Torturer. He's nice and solid with a cool effect.

Wow. Not a bad rant/explanation at 5 in the morning...

I think we should grab the gate.

Bronzebeak Moa is tempting, and I wouldn't might picking up a copy of the torturer, but I say we stick with our 3 colors and grab the gate. We're going to want to have those, and other people will want to take them. D to the D makes it so that we want this gate in particular. Let's not miss the opportunity.

Remember that while there is a gate in every pack, there are 10 different gates. This is the one we want the most at this point. Statistically, it is likely that we will not see another orzhov gate for the rest of the draft. And in this set, we want to make use of gatekeepers, too.

I like our colors for now I think. There was an Orzhov guild gate last pack as well so there is a decent chance at least one of the three we've seen will wheel to is again.

I like the hired tortuter. He gives a good advantage in games with a locked board state and has a halfway decent defense to be used for blocking.

What I'm going to add is that IF we pick a gate, we're definitely picking the foil gate since that confers less information to the others.

The torturer would kind of steer our deck in a control direction, which would be something the gatekeepers are good for as well.

I think we are more likely to see another Torturer than we are to see another Orzhov Guildgate. And I don't think the ones we've seen will wheel.

It will really suck if end up with D to the D(maybe 2 copies with some luck) and no Orzhov gates in our deck.

I mean, the torturer is playable, but he's not exactly a "must pick". I don't think it's worth the risk. We've got plenty of time to get creatures.

Bronzebeak will send it into green which, since we passed an unflinching courage, is probably going to hurt us pack 2.

The Hired Torturer is the best creature in our colours, but a lot of people underestimate him and we passed one earlier. We may see another one. Torturer is an amazingly good card. He blocks and kills bears, which means a LOT of the creatures people will be using to fill their decks, and he provides incremental advantages by pinging them at the end of their turn for 2.

On the other hand I just said last pick that we ought to be prioritizing gates a little higher than normal. So it comes down to this. Gate, or Torturer?

I hate to do it but I think tactically, we take the Gate. Not only is having gates good, but it helps cut out the gate strategy that someone else might build, with gatekeepers and loads of gates. Toughest decision so far this pack is. Gate (also, SHINY!)

Plus, we probably want to end up with 2 orzhov gates. Possibly even 3, depending. If we miss this, we may not even get 1. That could hurt us a lot.

After thinking about it and reading your comments:

+1 foil gate

Just as an fyi, from these last 3 packs, there have been 5 guildgates or cluestones that give us the colorled mana we need.

Although somehow I completely missed the fact that one of the guildgates here is foil... Blame my "awake at 5 in the morning" brain.

I do think that in general cluestones are terrible, and if you include any in a limited deck it's because you don't have enough real cards.

The exception if having a lot of cards you really want to ramp into, like D to the D. I doubt we'll have enough such cards to warrent taking sub-par cards.

My vote goes to Rubblebelt Maaka. 3 colors are enough if you ask me and that is a solid creature that works also as Giant Growth

It's an okay creature, but red is the most minor of our colours, and that's the reason that, if we picked a creature, I value the torturer more. Also as it can only be used on an attacking creature, the giant growth comparison is very narrow.

GoldGhost012: Yes, exactly. And that's what makes it all the less likely that we will see more of them. By law of averages, we will likely start seeing more of the off-colored ones from now on. And counting on the ones we've already seen to wheel would be a losing bet, I think. Our chance to get it is now. The maaka and the torturer are fine but not amazing creatures. They are not worth losing our main gate.

so votes until now (if I count correctly):

1x Maaka
2x Torturer
3x Gate

The gate made the most convincing case at the moment for me, so I'm gonna go with that if no one wants to readjust their vote in the next hour until I go to sleep.

Sorry for weighing in late on this one guys, my vote definitely goes to the foil gate. Shiny lands win games. End of Story. haha