I see that, but with the whole theme of the deck, you would normally target the other player. My point wasn't that it isn't good, my point was that of the cards there, it is not one of the better cards, and that without any way of protecting yourself you will rarely live long enough to deal the appropriate amount of damage.
October 30, 2013 4:56 p.m.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea : I doubt it will do a huuuuuge change to the deck, but I can imagine having at least a single one around would could be useful. c:
October 30, 2013 5:16 p.m.
Ghost7: Done and done!
Infral: Mikokoro, Center of the Sea fits the theme of the deck perfectly, but I feel like it wouldn't fit well in this deck because 1) the cards here are very mana-specific, so running a colorless land may not be the best idea and 2) at the rate that I'll usually be drawing cards, there will almost always be a better way to spend three mana.
linkizzl: Damnation isn't the only card designed to keep me alive here. Martyr of Ashes 's ability is essentially a boardwipe, and Swans of Bryn Argoll creates a strong incentive for my opponents to not attack me.
Toil / Trouble is a finisher for this deck. It's meant to be played around turn 6 or 7, and win me the game the turn it's played. Given this, the high mana cost isn't a huge issue since I won't play it until it will win me the game, which shouldn't happen until I have at least 6 lands out, and the card advantage issue shouldn't matter since playing Toil / Trouble should win the game either as it resolves or as I pass the turn after playing it. The fact that I can use it to make myself draw cards as well is only an added benefit.
Forced Fruition was meant to fulfill the same role as Toil / Trouble , but as I actually substantiate that role, I'm beginning to realize that it's simply outclassed by cards like Toil / Trouble or Incendiary Command . It's a fun card and all, but you're right, it should come out.
If I was going to take out Underworld Dreams , I would take out Spiteful Visions first. Spiteful Visions is a much more powerful card, but it has an enormous drawback in that it also deals a lot of damage to me. Neither of these are going to come out though, they're too integral to the deck's combo.
November 4, 2013 4:45 p.m.
The reason I didn't count Martyr of Ashes as a viable control was because her ability only reads "reveal X red cards," and with only 14 red cards in the deck, and you probably wanting to play most of your red cards ASAP, you will probably not have many in hand when it comes time to use her to blow things up. But I am glad you are beginning to see Forced Fruition as a redundant, win-more card.
November 4, 2013 5:41 p.m.
I swear, I cannot read. I never noticed the fact that Martyr of Ashes only counted red cards. Thanks for pointing that out.
Now, what should I replace them with? Ideally the replacements will be red permanents in order to enable Kederekt Parasite and have some way to keep me alive. And be cheap (mana-wise).
November 4, 2013 6:46 p.m.
I really can't think of anything... Although I previously said to never drop Kederekt Parasite , maybe that time has finally come. It would open up a lot of slots for other cards...
November 4, 2013 9:24 p.m.
I replaced Martyr of Ashes with Quest for Pure Flame . It doesn't increase my survivability, but it's a one drop red permanent that has the potential to make me win a turn earlier.
November 5, 2013 12:12 a.m.
infinitemana says... #9
I actually have a sort-of similar deck but it is based on discard not draw, but it is based on using effects like Burning Inquiry , which could also be good here. Here is the link: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle
November 6, 2013 7:52 p.m.
jackledaman says... #10
Perhaps a Whispering Madness could find a home in here?
November 17, 2013 3:53 p.m.
Whispering Madness would definitely fit in this deck, and the cipher on it could make Swans of Bryn Argoll really scary. It's better than Runeflare Trap as long as I have one damage/card draw permanent out, and better than Incendiary Command and Toil / Trouble as long as I have two damage/card draw permanents out (I think I'm doing my math right :P), and that's just counting the first cast. It costs less than any of the others, and has utility aside from straight damage. My only concern is that it could potentially deal a significant amount of damage to me with Spiteful Visions but that's more of a problem with Spiteful Visions than Whispering Madness . I think it's a better finisher than what I have at the moment, so it's going in :p
Thanks for the suggestion!
November 18, 2013 12:28 a.m.
jackledaman says... #12
You're welcome its good to see creative decklists like this one, I'm glad I could help.
November 18, 2013 3:55 a.m.
Lordofevolution says... #14
Why not Blood Crypt over Sulfurous Springs it may do 1 more damage once but will probably save you life later on plus triggers Underground River seems it would help more overall
November 29, 2013 9:38 p.m.
Lordoffurriness says... #15
what about Seizan, Perverter of Truth to speed up the game? also its a solid 6/5 body that can serves as finisher
December 3, 2013 5:49 p.m.
Drop Spiteful Visions . Its drawback is way too much to risk. Maybe swap them out for Seizan, Perverter of Truth like most other people said?
December 9, 2013 5:12 p.m.
I've thought about building a deck like this for a long time. I'd do it slightly different, though. Hold all those cards in their hand with Manabarbs . Then, when they can't hold all those cards, bring in Liliana's Caress and Megrim . So now they have to either play their cards and hurt for it, or discard their cards and hurt for it. Spiteful Visions would be another great card here, a combination of Howling Mine and Underworld Dreams . I love this deck though, it's so offbeat and powerful. Wait, and Browbeat is essential. If they don't want to take 5, they can draw 3 cards, discard them, and take damage later on. +1
December 23, 2013 12:03 p.m.
I'm making a similar deck, I wouldn't mind some advice. The Pissed Off Librarian
Have you considered Geth's Grimoire ?
I've been using using Jace's Archivist and Notion Thief in mine.
December 23, 2013 1:11 p.m.
For the record, death by card draw is also known as milling. It sounds more professional.
January 2, 2014 11:22 a.m.
EddCrawley says... #21
I like the idea of this seemingly happy hugs deck, have you thought of Font of Mythos , as a more potent Howling Mine
January 2, 2014 11:29 a.m.
I'm suprisede you don't have a Nekusar, the Mindrazer in the deck. My girlfriend has a EDH deck command by the guy and it kills quick and killed all in a multiplayer game. The only flop I would see with him would be that he's a 5 CMC.
January 2, 2014 11:46 a.m.
Sadly, Nekusar, the Mindrazer isn't legal in modern :(
For a four drop, I have found Teferi's Puzzle Box to be more effective at making my opponent draw cards than Font of Mythos .
Milling is different from what this deck does :P
And thanks :D
January 2, 2014 11:37 p.m.
Why is Braid of Fire in here? It doesn't seem like you can really do anything with all that mana, besides cast Runeflare Trap .
ItchiUchiha117 says... #1
Toil / Trouble lets him draw cards. Toil says target player. He is a player and he is a viable target. He can then have Trouble work its Magic on another player.
October 30, 2013 3:55 p.m.